tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Apr 18 11:55:58 2002

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Re: John and I go...

"Sean M. Burke" wrote:
> > the way one says "John and I go..." is what
> > I'd literally translate into Klingon as "majaH John"--namely, an overt
> > subject of just "John", and then a "we" prefix on the verb.

SuStel replied:
>There is no evidence that you can say */majaH torgh/ (let's use a Klingon
>name).  The correct way of saying it is /majaH jIH torgh je/.  I believe
>we've had an example (I can't cite it) with "pronoun noun je" as subject.

The only example I could find was:

   woQ luSuqmeH jIjpu' chaH romuluSngan'e' je.
   [the Duras sisters are] going as far as to work with Romulan factions
    in order to gain power. S26

"in order for them to gain power, they and the Romulans are cooperating"

>Although one reading of explicit pronouns as subject or object is emphasis,
>another perfectly valid reading is clarity.  If I said /jaH ghaH/, it means
>the same thing as /jaH/.  I'm just making sure you know I'm saying that
>/ghaH/ did it.  If you want emphasis, use /-'e'/: /jaH ghaH'e'/ "It was HE
>who went."

Or SHE, of course... as opposed to {jaH 'oH} "it went".

>A lot of people seem to think you can say /majaH Hoch/ for "All of us go,"
>but I'm opposed to that for the same reason I'm opposed to /majaH torgh/:
>your noun and prefix don't agree, and I think this is too far to elide.  I
>wouldn't be opposed to /majaH Hoch maH/, because /Hoch maH/ is (apparently)
>a plural 1st person phrase.

Examples of {Hoch} by itself as the subject of a verb:

   QI'tomerDaq Heghpu' Hoch
   No one survived Khitomer ("Everyone died at Khitomer"). TKW

   rut yIHmey ghom Hoch
   Everyone encounters tribbles occasionally. TKW

   may' ngeb tIv Hoch
   Everyone enjoys a mock battle. PK

Although the first two are ambiguous, the third example clearly shows that 
{Hoch} by itself is grammatically singular (otherwise the verb would be 
{lutIv}), requiring the verb to be in the 3rd person singular.

Personally, I really like the colloquial feel of *{majaH Hoch}, but Sustel 
is right: There is nothing in the rules or canon that explicitly allows it.

Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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