tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Oct 13 00:31:10 2001
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RE: KLBC: Fairy Tale {{:-(
> "SuS'a' Hov boch je" or "The (North-)Wind and the Sun".
My wife knows this story. It is new to me.
> The Northwind and the Sun (both of which I couldn't directly translate)
Recently Okrand has given us -compass directions-. We still don't have a
direct translation for "north" but we could probably use another direction
without changing the meaning of the story.
chan - east
'ev - northwest
tIng - southwest
The klingon compass rose (which, gee, looks like the trefoil) points east,
to the rising sun; instead of north. I'm sure voragh can supply the offical
quote from HolQeD #32, Dec 99.
So, we could go with 'ev SuS'a' - the Wind of the Northwest / northwest
wind.
Hov boch - shiny star.
The little specks at night are shiny. boch isn't enough to make it the sun.
We don't know yet what the klingons call a sun. Sure with modern technology
we know that the sun is just another star, but before scientific advancement
they must of thought it was something different than the little dots in the
night sky. But the word has apparently been lost in history. So with Hov
how do we specify? wov (bright) doesn't work well either, it would just be
a bright star. Some people in the KLI use [Hov'a'] (a major star); some use
[pem Hov] (daytime star).
> ghoH SuS'a' Hov boch je.
> jatlh SuS'a' "jIH HoS law' SoH HoS puS!"
> jang Hov boch "Qo', jIH'e' HoS law' SoH HoS puS!"
In HolQeD #28, Dec 98, Okrand tells us that "quotes" need a [jatlh]. A
"quote" can't go on a [jang] (and other similar verbs).
[ jang pem Hov, jatlh <Qo', ...> ] - "The Sun answered, he said 'No, ...'"
> ghoHghaH lutaHlaHbe' bIH. ghoHlaHchugh vaj chen muD Hujbej.
It took me a while to figure out the first sentence before I noticed that I
think you intended ghoHghach. ghoH is a nice verb, lets keep it a verb.
ghoHnIStaHbe' bIH - "They must not continue arguing". This would make more
sense if we were allowed to put the -nIS at the end, but it is a type 2 and
has its place. To help clearify we could use mev.
ghoHtaH bIH 'e' lumevnIS - "they need to stop continuously arguing"
"If they were ABLE to argue..."? They are able to argue. If they DID argue
...
Verbs being used as adjectives can't have -bej; only qu', and
sometimes -Ha'.
> DaH yItlI' qo'Daq laD.
"Now a man on the world was walking."
The locative (qo'Daq) should go before the verb. Is this locative needed?
Does the original specify that the man is on the world?
yItlI', Sure the man probably has an intended goal he's walking to, but it
doesn't appear to be relevent to the story. -lI' implies continuous with a
foreseeable end to the action. -taH is just continuous.
Hmm, DaH doesn't seem right either. How about ngugh - "then, at that time".
man - loD
yIt loD "A man was walking"
ngugh yIt loD "At that time a man was walking"
ngugh yIttaH loD
> vaj loD wepDaj je chev bIH Qochbe' Hov boch SuS'a' je.
Qochbe' is just "agree", not "agree on" or "agree about". But when you do
use a verb with a previous sentence, read TKD section 6.2.5 p65 about 'e'.
> SuS'a' Hov boch ghap nom law' latlh nom puS 'ej lujbejpu' latlh.
nom is an adverb, so it can't be used like this. Otherwise, this is
certainly an interesting use of the law'/puS; putting ghap in there. I've
never seen anyone try this. Let's see what the other grammarians think.
But we still need to find a verb to use.
> wa'DIch SuS'a'. HoS naQ lo' ghaH 'ej bov taD ram rur maD chenmoH ghaH.
x-DIch needs to belong to a noun. The wind was the first what? He was the
first to take action, right? vangwI' wa'DIch 'oH SuS'a''e'.
The last sentence, "...like a night of the frozen era"; what is the english
for this one?
rur needs a -bogh on it.
I think you intend muD, instead of maD.
> loD wepDaj nge'laH ghaH Qub ghaH 'ach lughbe'. HoS naQ
Here we have that situation again about using a verb with a previous
sentence.
I don't want to give you all the answers; read that section I mentioned and
we'll give this sentence another try.
> lo'chugh ghaH, wepDaj SoQmoHqu' loD.
> "qatlh Hagh SoH?" tlhob SuS'a', "loD wepDaj chevbe'chugh
[tlhob], like [jang] above, needs a [jatlh].
tlhob SuS'a', jatlh <qatlh bIHagh SoH?>.
Don't forget the prefix on Hagh, chev,...
> jIH, vaj loD wepDaj chevbe' SoH!"
and chev again.
> SuS'a' mu'mey 'Ijbe'law' Hov boch 'ej HaghtaH. QIt loD
> tujlI' Hov boch Hagh. pay' wepDaj poSchoH loD. HaghtaH Hov
In the english preface you gave, you said he smiled. mon - smile.
[loD tujlI' Hov boch Hagh] - you can't use two adjectives, plus Hagh can't
be used as an adjective. tuj is "hot", you will need a -moH on it.
tujmoH - cause to be hot. Perhaps on here you could also use the
suffix -choH; tujchoHmoH - cause to become hot.
> boch 'ej loD tuj ghaH. tugh tuj muD 'ej wepDaj tuQnISbe' loD.
Again, tujmoH. If you're thinking about the word "heat" that's in the
dictionary, that's the noun version. The verb is "be hot".
> vaj wepDaj chaghqu' loD.
>
> QIt Qapla'Daq qem Hov boch HaghDaj 'ach nom Qapla'Daq qembe'
> SuS'a' HoS.
You can't be "in" success.
In your preface you said "So the Sun managed to achieve with patience what
the Northwind couldn't with brute force."
We have tuv - patient (v); and pe'vIl - forcefully (adv).
tuvmo' pem Hov, Qap. pe'vIl vangmo' SuS'a', Qapbe'.
or possibly:
tuvmo' pem Hov, Qapla''e' pe'vIl chavlaHbe'bogh SuS'a' chav pem Hov.
"Because the Sun was patient, the Sun achieved the success which the wind
was not able to forcefully achieve."
Some people might not like how I handled the adverb. I got the idea for
this usage from TKD p180.
> Okay, this is the first thing I did in Klingon that has more that one
sentence,
And it's past my bedtime.
> I'd be really grateful if someone would have a look at it.
And if I made mistakes, it's because I am already sleeping.
DloraH