tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Oct 09 23:04:24 2001
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neH as suffix (was Re: help for someone new)
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: neH as suffix (was Re: help for someone new)
- Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:58:44 -0700
My mailer mangled this, so I've edited it ...
> -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:52 AM > To:
[email protected] > Subject: Re: Help for someone new! > > > From:
"Rohan Fenwick" <[email protected]> > > My impression is that >
Klingon progressed from free particles to bound morphemes, at > least in
the verb system. In fact, I think we have an example of > that happening
right now: the verb {neH}. > > My theory is that the ancestor of present
Klingon did > not have verb suffixes, but separate verbs, which were >
simply juxtaposed to express the required meaning, eg. > ?{jISuv vIqang}.
Over time, a common set of auxiliary > verbs lost their separate status and
became suffixes > of the verb. I think {neH} for some reason didn't make >
the transition at the same time, but is on it's way to > doing so, which is
why you don't need {'e'} when {neH} > has another verb as its object. Maybe
in 200 years, > Klingons will say ?{jISuvneH}!
charghwI'
_______
While Okrand has explained that {neH} has its special status because of
another movie goof that forced it to be that way, it strikes me that {neH}
is different from, for example {-qang}, which is probably its closest
suffix in meaning because unlike {-qang}, the person doing the wanting is
not necessarily the person doing the action of the verb. We need to be able
to put a prefix on {neH}. We don't need to put a prefix on {-qang}. See?
DaQaHqang. DaQaH vIneH. Willingness is almost always associated with the
subject of the verb, but desire can be associated with outside parties to
the action. It is not so commonly meaningful to say, "I'm willing that you
help her," as it is to say, "I want you to help her." If willingness is an
issue, it typically is an issue for the one doing the helping, for
example. > -- ter'eS charghwI'
It's true that neH can take a different subject than the verb it refers to,
and that a suffix like -qang can't. But most of the time the subject is
the same as for the other verb.
Think of it like the sentence, -- e.g. jISop -- followed by the clipped
Klingon "neH". This is a good candidate for clipped Klingon, as the
subject is obvious.
I believe there is a difference in cadence between jISop. neH (I wanna eat)
and jISop neH (I merely eat).
I think it's an interesting speculation and that there's no need to argue
against it or shoot it down because he's not arguing that he be allowed to
do it and have it considered Klingon, and it doesn't affect anything we do
now.
- Qov