tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon May 21 17:41:41 2001

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RE: KLBC



Welcome to the list, Qama! I'm taD, the current Beginner's Grammarian. I'll
skip my normal intro since you already included KLBC in your subject line.

Qama said:

	Hol tagh ghoj jIH 
	I begin the process of learning the Language.  

This is a good attempt.
Using two verbs like this doesn't quite work. However, in this case, you can
still use {ghoj}, and use the verb suffix {-choH} to express the idea of
"beginning". The suffix {-choH} means that there is a change; in this case,
you've gone from not learning the language, to learning the language. So
{ghojchoH} can express the idea of "start to learn".

So using the verb {ghojchoH}, you would get:
*{Hol ghojchoH jIH}
However, there's one additional thing that you need to add here: a verb
prefix. Verb prefixes tell who is performing the action, and what is being
acted upon. These prefixes are explained in The Klingon Dictionary in
section 4.1.1 (on pages 33-34).
For your sentence, "I learn the language", the subject is "I" and the object
is "the language (it)". Looking at the chart on page 33,  the Klingon prefix
for "I - it" is {vI-}. So you want to add {vI-} onto the verb here:
{Hol vIghojchoH jIH} "I start to learn the language."

  
	pong wIv jIH 
	I choose a name. 

The word order here is good.
Again, you just need to add a verb prefix. Since the subject is "I" and the
object is "a name (it)", we want the prefix {vI-} again.
{pong vIwIv jIH} "I choose a name."


	Qama wIv jIH 
	I choose Qama. 

Same comment as above - add the appropriate verb prefix.


	'etlh >Caucausus/Arabic< rap je pong Qama 
	The name Qama also is the same as an Arabic/Caucasus sword. 

The verb {rap} is defined as "be the same" and not "be the same as
(something)". For {rap}, the subject would be the things that are the same,
and there would be no object. So you would say "The name Qama & an
Arabic/Caucausus sword are the same."

However, rather than saying that the name and the sword are the same, it
might be better to say "The name Qama also *describes* an Arabic/Caucasus
sword." If you choose to say that, you would just have to replace {rap} in
your original sentence with {Del} ("describe").

It probably would be better to change the word order and say
{>Caucausus/Arabia< 'etlh} ("sword of Caucausus/Arabia") instead of {'etlh
>Caucausus/Arabic<}.


	je nargh pong Qama qoD >canon< 
	Qama also appears in canon 

When using {je} like this (i.e., when you aren't joining nouns with it),
{je} goes right after the verb of the sentence.

Also, there's a problem here with "in canon". The word {qoD} means "inside,
interior", and is a noun. So you could use as a noun, such as "The inside is
beautiful."
In order to say "in something else", such as "in canon", you can use the
noun suffix {-Daq}. {-Daq} means "in, on, at" in relation to the noun that
it is attached to. So this would be {*canon*Daq}. Since this is neither the
subject nor the object, but just describes where the action happens, it goes
at the beginning of the sentence. The final version would be:
{*canon*Daq nargh je pong Qama} "The name Qama also appears in canon."

Actually, I don't recognize the name "Qama" from the Klingon Dictionary or
other tlhIngan Hol sources. Are you thinking of the word {qama'}
("prisoner")?


	chong Qama pong tlhIngan Har vaj jIH 
	I therefore believe Qama is a very good Kilingon name. 

The word order for this sentence is a bit complicated. It looks like the
best way to write your Klingon version here is to use a "sentence as
object". Since you don't just believe *someone*, but an entire event (that
the name Qama is good), you would use two sentences. The first sentence is
the event that you believe (or see, or know, etc.), and then the second
sentence actually says "I believe (or see, etc.) that".
For example, I can say:

{targh HoH HoD} "The captain killed the targ."

If I want to indicate that I know this happened, I can say:

{'e' vISov} "I know that."

The pronoun {'e'} ("that") refers to the previous sentence, and is used with
"sentence as object" constructions.

Combining these, we get:
{targh HoH HoD. 'e' vISov} "I know (that) the captain killed the targh."

So for your original sentence, we can start with 2 sentences:
"The Klingon name Qama is very good."
"Therefore I believe that (previous sentence)."

We just need to change the word order a little from your original Klingon,
and we get:
{chong tlhIngan pong Qama} "The Klingon name Qama is excellent."

For the second sentence, we again need to add a verb prefix. Also,
adverbials such as {vaj} go at the beginning of a sentence:
{vaj 'e' vIHar jIH} "Therefore I believe that."

Now we put these sentences together and get:
{chong tlhIngan pong Qama. vaj 'e' vIHar jIH.} "Therefore I think that the
Klingon name Qama is excellent."


	(vIttlhegh bIng pong) 
	(my proverb (.sig) is below my name) 

There isn't a specific verb "to be" in Klingon; however, often we can use
the word {tu'lu'}, which means "One finds". The noun that is being "found"
goes before the verb. For example,
{vIttlhegh tu'lu'} "One finds a proverb" or simply "There is a proverb."

There is an example in the Klingon Dictionary at the bottom of page 31,
which explains how to say "below", "above", etc.
{nagh DungDaq} "At the rock's above-area" or more simply "Above the rock"
You can say "Below my name" in the same way - you just need to change the
word order in your original Klingon sentence, and use the noun suffix
{-Daq}.
{pong bIng} "The name's below-area"
{pong bIngDaq} "At the name's below-area" or "Below the name"
Since this is neither the subject nor object of the sentence, but just tells
where the action happens, it goes at the beginning of the sentence:
{pong bIngDaq vIttlhegh tu'lu'} "At the name's below-area, a proverb is
found" or "A proverb is below the name."


	- Qama 

	HoH batlh, HoH baj batlh 
	'a po' batlh vaj 'ut joch neH 

	Kill with Honor, Kill for Honor 
	But those skilled in Honor cause injury only when necessary 

I don't want to overwhelm you with too much information in one message, so I
won't make corrections to your translation of this proverb right now.
However, I will suggest that you try saying it again, using the following
English version:
"Honor is more important than everything. Never be harmful too much."

For the first part of this proverb, take a look at the Superlative section
on pages 70-71 of TKD.

For the second part, review the section of TKD on verb prefixes, especially
imperative prefixes on page 34.

The word for "too much" or "to an excessive degree" isn't found in TKD;
however, it is explained on page 2 of HolQeD volume 8, Number 3. Since you
may not have that issue of the journal, you should also be able to find it
on the new words page at www.kli.org. The word is {tlhoy} ("too much") and
is an adverbial, just like {reH} "always" or {loQ} "slightly".

	___________________________________________________________________ 
	
	* HONOR PRAE OMNIBUS - INIURIA MINIMA OMNIBUS 
	* Honor Before All - Doing Least Harm Always 
	___________________________________________________________________ 

A good first message to the list. majQa'.

- taD



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