tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 09 10:40:21 2000
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Re: RE: KLBC cheng Sa' may'bom bom mu' cha'DIch
On Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:07:15 -0700 "Andeen, Eric"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> jatlh J:
>
> > Sa': jonta'mey Qorgh jonpInwI'. jInISbe'
> > my engineering officer takes care of the engines.
> > I don't interfere;
>
> maj.
>
> > qeylIS lutmey qortar wIchmey je vISov jIH.
> > no' Hol vISov; mughlu'be'
>
> > stories of Kahless and myths of Kortar I know them in
> > ancient language
>
> maj.
>
> > ??no' Hol would this be a -bogh clause jatlhtaHbogh
> > which are spoken would no' Hol go in front of this clause
> > and would this all go at the head of the sentence to apply
> > to both the stories and the myths???
>
> I think the way you have it is just fine.
I waited to hear this before responding. I think this could
be more clearly stated. In general, your approach is good.
You state clear sentences and allow the listener to follow
the implied thread that connects them. This really is a
good approach in general. Meanwhile, in this specific case,
I think there are better tools available.
qeylIS lutmey qortar wIchmey je vIqawDI' no' Hol neH vIlo.
When I remember the stories of Kahless and myths of Kortar
I exclusively use the language of our ancestors.
> The stories and myths don't actually speak, so you can't put a <no' Hol
> jatlhtaHbogh ... > at the beginning, since it would make <lutmey wIchmey je>
> the subject of <jatlh>.
Ummm. You mean that would make them the OBJECT of {jatlh}.
Meanwhile, we know that {Hol} is a valid object for
{jatlh}, so this does work. You must be tired. This is
definitely not a typical error for you.
> If you want to be really precise, you could use this
> for your second sentence:
>
> luja'lu'meH no'Hol jatlhlu'chugh vIyajtaH.
My, that's complex. "I am understanding the ancient
language which is spoken in order that they are told." Yes,
this works, but it is a bit convoluted. Hmmm. But after a
little immersion, I start to like it. majQa'. I think it
must be lunch time. I'm slow.
Yes. I'm VERY slow. That's {-chugh}, not {-bogh}. "If an
ancient language is used in order that they are told, I
continue to understand them."
> mughnIS pagh.
> If they [the stories and myths] are told in the ancient language, I (still)
> understand them. Nobody needs to translate.
>
> Again, I don't think this is necessary. Your way makes perfect sense.
Many ways to say this, obviously.
> > mu'qaD veS vItIv jIH
> > curse warfare I enjoy it
>
> Good Klingon; questionable English :)
Yes. Don't bend your English translation to map the Klingon
word order. Translate what it means, not what it says.
> > burgh quD Suqqa'a' reH jIghel
> > is stomach qud reacquired I always ask
>
> Don't forget the double <'> in <Suqqa''a'>.
Well, to be technically accurate:
reH jIghel. jIjatlh burgh quD Suqqa''a'?
I don't really know that {ghel} can take an object. The
definition is "ask (a question)". Meanwhile, there is no
Klingon noun meaning "question" and Okrand has specifically
stated that {ghel} doesn't really work as a word of speech.
Even if it did, verbs of speech don't use the quotation as
an object. They are just adjacent sentences that are
grammatically independent of each other (the sentence
stating the speech and the sentence which is the quotation)
with no punctuation between them.
This leaves me thinking that {ghel} is actually a stative or
intransitive verb and the meaning includes the concept of
"ask a question" as we would express it in English. I see
it as similar to "have a headache" or "experience an
earthquake". These are all intransitive verbs in Klingon.
What English takes to be a direct object is handled in
Klingon as an implied noun that never exists, all contained
in the stative verb.
Makes you think, don't it? Heh, heh...
> > Hew; mIStaq rur vIngu'laH
> > statues in the manner of mIStaq I can identify
>
> This doesn't quite work. <rur> is the perfect verb for "in the manner of",
> but the grammar doesn't quite work. This is the perfect place for a <-bogh>
> clause:
>
> mIStaq rurbogh Hew vIngu'laH.
Yuck. I suggest:
mIStaq Hew rurbogh Hew'e' vIngu'laH.
As originally stated, you are either saying that you
recognize statues that resemble mIStaq, or you are saying
that you recognize mIStaq, who is resembled by a statue.
You want to say that you can recognize a STATUE that
resembles mIStaq's statues.
> > romuluS HIq Sorya' HIq vItlhutlhlaH
> > Romulan ale, Saurian brandy I can drink
> > ?? [je] required, or is listing ok
>
> <je> is strictly required, but in poetry and song lyrics you can get away
> with dropping it.
Of course, in poetry and song lyrics you can get away with
killing your mother-in-law. All bets are off. This is why I
don't edit songs or poems.
ARGH! IS THIS A POEM? AM I IN THE MIDDLE OF EDITING A POEM?
pItlh!
charghwI'
> > ghom: Ha'DIbah naH tlhIl joq De' Sovbe'
> > information animal vegetable or mineral he doesn't know
>
> I got confused for a bit on this one. I had no idea what the <ghom> was for,
> and I didn't know why you switched to third person. When I exercised my poor
> brain a bit, I realized <ghom> was the chorus.
>
> > tlhIngan Sa'na' ghaH
> > He is most certainly a Klingon General
>
> maj.
>
> > it's not over yet
> msj. taH lut 'e' vIpIHbej.
>
>
> pagh
> Beginners' Grammarian
>
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