Re: RE: Mu'mey chu'

["William H. Martin" <whm2m@virginia.edu>]

On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:11:29 -0400 "Stauffer, Tad E (staufte7)" 
<staufte7@Juniata.Edu> wrote:

> voragh wrote:
> 
> > > : tlhoy - overly, to an excessive degree, excessively, too much 
> > > : (adv) Note that this modifies the VERB and not any NOUN of a 
> > > : sentence. It refers to an action that is excessive and not that 
> > > : the action involves too many or too much of a noun. See {'Iq}. 
> > > 
> > > Now this one is confusing.  How is {tlhoy} different from the emphatic
> > > suffix {-qu'}, which Okrand has occasionally used in the sense of "too
> > much"?
> > 
> > 
> charghwI' responded:
> 
> > Apparently, he has never really used it to mean "too much". We 
> > read that into {tujqu'choH QuQ}, translated as "The engines are 
> > overheating," but apparently that was an interpretation of 
> > simply saying, "The engines are becoming very hot." One supposes 
> > that a Klingon engineer would not bother saying this unless it 
> > was a signficant development.
> > 
> > If he ever HAS used {-qu'} to mean "too much", then that was 
> > apparently no' Hol. Any time you want to mean "too much", use 
> > {tlhoy}. 
> > 
> > 
> When I look at {-qu'}, I think of it as similar to a verb-counterpart of
> {-'e'} -- it emphasizes that word. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the
> verb is done a lot or to a large degree. For example, if I read {HoD'e'
> vIlegh}, I think "I saw the *captain*, not someone else". Similarly, I would
> think of {HoD vIleghqu'} to mean "I *saw* the captain, (but I didn't talk to
> him or anything else)". It doesn't mean that I saw him a lot; I might have
> only glimpsed him. But to me, when it follows the verb, {-qu'} emphasizes
> that verb instead of another verb.

This is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest a link 
between what {'e'} does to nouns and what {-qu'} does to verbs 
or verb suffixes. It is an interesting thought, though I'm not 
sure you aren't placing too much emphasis on an idea that is 
slightly off target. In {tujqu'choH QuQ}, I doubt seriously that 
the engineer means, "The engines are becoming hot, as opposed to 
cold or noisy or some other verb. Yes, they are definitely hot 
and only hot."
 
> The way I would interpret {tujqu'choH QuQ} would be something like "The
> engine(s) are becoming *hot* (as opposed to becoming cold or powerful)"; it
> wouldn't necessarily mean "The engine(s) are very hot".

bIQaghlaw'.
 
> I don't think that the "too much" or "very" meaning of {-qu'} is quite
> right. Although on page 49, TKD says "The rover {-qu'} (emphatic) may follow
> verbs  functioning adjectivally. In this usage, it is usually translated
> _very_."
> To say "the very big ship" or "the enormous ship", I might have preferred
> *{Duj tInchu'}, except that {-chu'} cannot be used on a verb which is used
> adjectivally.  So {Duj tInqu'} is translated as "the very big ship",
> although I might also think of it as "the *big* ship (as opposed to the
> medium-sized ship or the small ship)".

chuch pujDaq bIQam.
 
> I think this is also one reason why the description of colors in KGT seems
> strange to me. On page 82 of KGT, Okrand translates {Doqqu'} and {SuDqu'} as
> "very Doq" and "very SuD". I would translate {Doqqu'} as "*Doq*, not
> blue/green/yellow, white, or black". It seems that especially when used
> adjectivally, a verb with {-qu'} is used to also hold the meaning of
> {-chu'}, possibly because {-chu'} cannot be used on a verb used
> adjectivally.

chaq mIwlIj DaqelnISqa'. If you find yourself repeatly thinking 
that Okrand is misusing a suffix, you might begin to entertain 
the idea that perhaps YOU are misusing the suffix.
 
> -taD

charghwI' 'utlh