tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 29 18:00:44 1999

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RE: KLBC: <Las Vegas>Daq lengwIj



jatlh tuv'el:

> KLBC: <Las Vegas>Daq lengwIj
> 
> vaghHu' <Las Vegas>Daq jIjaHpu'.

>From some recent explanations by Dr. Okrand, we know that <jaH> normally
takes the destination as its object, so <*Las Vegas* vIjaH> would be better
here. It takes some getting used to.

Also, as I asked Pillow earlier, do you want the completion of your trip to
be the focus of your sentence, or the trip itself? When you use the
perfective suffix <-pu'>, you put the focus on completion. Here's an example
that might help:

After a lovely dinner of qagh and bloodwine, here's how I might respond to
some typical questions:

nuq DaSop? - qagh vISop.
jIHvaD Qe' yIchov. - 'ey qagh, 'ach loQ bIrmo' SopwI'pa', nom bIrchoH
'IwHIq. nom yItlhutlh.
wagh'a' 'uQlIj? - ghobe'. wa'maH cha' DarSeq neH poQ jabwI'.

Note that none of these used any perfective suffixes, even though the dinner
was clearly over. The completion of the event was not at all important to
the conversation. Contrast with:

Qe' chu' wIghoS. ghotlhej. - Qo', jupwI'. jISoppu'.
much Dabejrup'a'? - HIja', bang. jISoppu'mo' ('ej jItlhutlhpu'mo') ghaytan
jIQongchoH. jIchuSchoHchugh, HIqIp.

In both these cases, the completion of the dinner ("I have eaten") is
important to the answer, so a perfective suffix gets used.

> SuDmeH vIjaHbe'.

You've fallen into a very common trap for English speakers. It seems like
you've said "I didn't go to gamble", but what you've really said here is "In
order to gamble, I didn't go", meaning that you stayed home for the purpose
of gambling. <-meH> is perfect for giving a purpose to your actions, but it
just does not work for saying something was *not* the purpose of your
actions.

You could instead say something like <jISuD 'e' vIHechbe' ('ej jISuDbe')>,
or quite a few other things.

> <Thanksgiving> jaj lopmeH vIjaH.

tlho'meH jaj lop 'Iv? Verb prefixes and <-lu'> often get dropped with
<-meH>, but I think in this case <wIlopmeH> would be better.

> jaHpu' je be'nalwI' puqbe'wI' je.

maj. DutlhejlaHDI' qorDu'lIj, QaQbej wanI'.

> pa' maratlhtaHvIS <Star Trek Experience> wISuch.

maj.

> batlhHa' nujol DIvI'may'Duj!

toDSaHpu' jay'!

> jatlh DIvI' yaS maH wa' HoHmeH ghoS tlhInganpu' 
> janluq pIqarD HoD qempa' ghaHlaw'mo' vay'.

<maH wa'> might be OK for "one of us", but it just sounds really weird to
me, and I had trouble understanding it. Something like <ghommajDaq wa' ghot
HoHmeH ...> would probably be better.

The part about being Picard's ancestor was great. <ghaHlaw'mo'> is pefect -
much more succinct than anything in DIvI' Hol. It's usually better style to
put <-mo'> clauses before the main clause (and may be grammatically
required), but it's probably OK to put it after in this sentence.

> HoDvam no' maHba'qu' puqpu' DIboghmoHlaHbe'mo' 
> 'ej Segh qIj ghaHmo' puqbe'oywI'.

I think you meant <maHbe'ba'qu'>. <boghmoH> is good for "have children" -
much better than the obvious and incorrect <ghaj>.

I also think <Segh qIj ghaHmo' puqbe'oyma'> sounds a little weird. This
sounds more like "my daughter is the black race". <ghot qIj ghaHmo' ...> or
even <qIjmo' ...> would probably make sense.

> Qapchu' tlhInganpu' vIneHba' 'ach vItIv.

maj.

> KLBC: My trip to Las Vegas
> 
> I went to Las Vegas five days ago.  I did not go to gamble.
> I went to celebrate the day of Thanksgiving.  My wife and 
> daughter went also.  While we were there, we visited the 
> Star Trek Experience.  A Federation battle cruiser 
> dishonorably beamed us aboard!  The Federation Officer said 
> the Klingons had come to kill one of us, because they were 
> evidently Captain Jean-Luc Picard's ancestor.  We are 
> obviously not the captain's ancestors, because we cannot 
> have children, and my dear daughter is Black.  Obviously,
> I wanted the Klingons to win, but I still enjoyed it.

maj. Despite the length of my reply, a good message.

DaH jIQop. juHwIj vIchegh.


pagh
Beginners' Grammarian

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