tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Nov 05 13:22:09 1999
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Re: And then...? And then...? (And then along came Jones...) - For MO
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: And then...? And then...? (And then along came Jones...) - For MO
- Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:21:27 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
On 5 Nov 1999 14:49:02 -0000 "Mark E. Shoulson" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >(1) vagh SanID ben buDbe' wamwI'pu'. ngugh Ho'Du'chaj lo'
> >chaH, 'ach DaH tajmey lo'.
> >
> >"5,000 years ago, hunters were not lazy. Then (at that
> >time) they used their teeth, but now they use knives."
> >
> >(2) DungluQ tIHIv. ngugh Qongbe' chaH.
> >
> >"Attack them at noon! They won't be sleeping then." (or:
> >"Attack them at noon. They're not sleeping then.")
>
> These examples would be pretty messy with circumlocutions to say it other
> ways.
Are you doing this just to tease me?
DaHjaj wamwI'pu' buD law' vath SanID ben wamwI'pu' buD puS.
Ho'Du'chaj lo' 'ach tajmey DIlo' vay'!
If the time reference can't be used like "200 year old wine",
then:
vatlh SanID ben wamwI' yIqel! maH buD law' chaH buD puS!
Ho'Du'chaj'e' lo' 'ach tajmey DIlo' neH. [spit.]
ghorgh tIHIv? Qongbe'ba'mo' Dungluq tIHIv!
But you are right. This does add a lot of meaning because of the
temporal focus.
> >In addition to {ngugh}, there is an idiomatic expression
> >involving the suffix {-DI'} "when, as soon as" used to mean
> >"by that time, by the time that [something] occurred (or
> >will occur)." The event that has occurred (or will occur)
> >is typically expressed in the immediately preceding
> >sentence or clause, though it could have been uttered
> >earlier.
>
> That's nice; "by that time" is a good 'un.
I'm happy.
> >Some speakers, however, are rather creative and use nouns
> >other than {'etlh}. For example: {pumDI' DaS} "when the
> >boot falls," {pumDI' 'obmaQ} "when the ax falls," {pumDI'
> >nagh} "when the stone falls," {pumDI' rutlh} "when the
> >wheel falls." There seems to be no restriction on what
> >noun may be used here, as long as it is something that
> >could possibly fall. (Thus {pumDI' QoQ} "when the music
> >falls" would not be used.)
>
> All nice... hey, but... :) We now have a word for "wheel"! I don't think
> we ever did before (closest was {gho} used as "hoop")
True. It will be nice when I can post it to the New Words List.
[Hint, hint.]
> >The idiom might be used when talking about a feast that had
> >taken place a few nights ago. If a guest arrived late --
> >after the eating had already begun -- one might say
> >something like:
> >
> >
> > tagha' pawpu' meb 'ach pumDI' Heghpu' qagh.
> >
> >or:
> >
> > tagha' pawpu' meb 'ach pumDI' 'etlh Heghpu' qagh.
> >
> >
> >"The guest finally arrived, but by then the gagh had died."
> >
> >({tagha'} "finally, at last," {pawpu'} "he/she has
> >arrived," {meb} "guest," {'ach} "but," {pumDI' ('etlh)} "by
> >then," {Heghpu'} "it has died," {qagh} "gagh")
>
> *ping* and an adverb for "finally"! Though so far only for finally in the
> sense of "it happened after a long expectation, after being considered
> late" and not "at the end of the story, when all is/was said and done."
We still need an exclammatory meaning, "So?" I guess we'll just
have to do with facial expressions.
> ~mark
charghwI'