tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu May 27 17:27:18 1999

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Re: mu'mey Sar

nughel qa'ral:

: 2)  chay' /then, at that time/ jatlhlu'?  poHvetlh?

This works in some contexts:

  poHvetlh qaStaHvIS Qo'noS vIDab.
  Then (At that time) I was living on Kronos.

{poH} is a noun meaning "a period of time" (n.) as opposed to time in general
and appears in the following: {poH nI'} "a long time", {DIS poH } & {DISpoH}
"century", {HovpoH} "Stardate", {leSpoH} "shore leave" and {puq poH}
"generation".  From the episodes, we also know of *nIb'poH* "deja vu" as it
appears in the ST:Encyclopedia; Okrand hasn't given us an official
transcription yet.

On occasion {vaj} "so, then, thus, in that case" also works - though one
remember that this is then in the sense of "if-then".  Some examples:

  vaj Daleghpu'.
  Then you have seen it. TKD/ST3

  bIjeghbe'chugh vaj bIHegh 
  Surrender or die! TKD
  ("If you don't surrender, then you will die.")

  bIje'be'chugh vaj bIHegh!
  Buy or die! CK
  ("If you don't buy, then you will die.")
  vaj DatIvba'. 
  Then you're obviously enjoying it. CK

  vaj Dargh wIb DatlhutlhnIS. 
  Then you need to drink sour tea. CK 

  naDev juHlIjDaq cha'logh jISopneSchugh vaj jIquv 
  It would be an honor to eat twice here at your house, your Honor. PK 

  vaj toDDujDaj ngeHbej DIvI'. 
  That means the Federation will be sending a rescue ship of its own. ST5

  vaj malopmeH tlhIHvaD nob SaSuqpu'. 
  So to celebrate, I've gotten you all a gift. (Hallmark) 

  nuHlIj DawIvpu', vaj yISuv
  You have chosen your weapon, so fight! TKW 

Klingon lacks a word for this temporal or sequential sense of English "then".

  I woke up, then I got out of bed, then I went into the bathroom,
  then I brushed my teeth, then I shaved, then I took a shower,
  then I dressed, then I ate breakfast, ... etc.

Consequently, one relies on context.  Here's a question from the
startrek.klingon newsgroup on a theorized sequential implication of {'ej} -
since rejected - you may find informative:

------------------------- begin quoted text --------------------------
From: Marc Okrand <>
Newsgroups: startrek.klingon
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 
Subject: Re: 'ej and sequence (for Dr. Okrand)

Marc Paige wrote ...
>There has been some discussion lately about whether or not the conjunction
><'ej> has or does not have and sequential aspects. I agree with those that
>say that the sequencial nature of a joined phrases depends on the context of
>the phrases taken as a whole. This is the same way I treat 'and' in English.
>Do you have any words of wisdom to settle this dust up?

As far as I know, {'ej} means "and" in the sense of "in addition," "also,"
"as well as," and the like.  It does not have any temporal or sequential
implications.  That is, it does not (by itself) mean "and then." 

For example, Klingon {jISop 'ej jItlhutlh} "I eat and I drink" ({jI-} "I,"
{Sop} "eat,"  {tlhutlh} "drink") means "I eat and also I drink."  It could
refer to events that occur in alternating fashion (eat some, drink some,
eat some, drink some more) or, especially in the case of some Klingons,
events that occur pretty much simultaneously.  It could also mean "I eat
and then I drink," but it does not necessarily mean that.  If that is the
intended meaning (and if being a little vague or ambiguous or unclear will
cause misunderstanding and hence discomfort), additional stuff must be
added or the whole thing must be rephrased to make the meaning explicit
(such as {jItlhutlhpa' jISop} "before I drink, I eat" [{-pa'} "before"]). 

Similarly, the most likely interpretation of {jItlhutlh 'ej jIQong} "I
drink and I sleep" ({Qong} "sleep") is not that I drink in my sleep
(though it could be used for that if I really did it), but rather simply
"I drink and also I sleep," a listing of two things I do, presumably (but
not explicitly) not at the same time. 

Then there's {qaDuQ 'ej bIregh} "I stab you and you bleed"  ({qa-} "I [do
something to] you," {DuQ} "stab," {bI-} "you," {regh} "bleed").  It
probably would be used when the stabbing precedes (and is the direct cause
of) the bleeding.  But it doesn't explicitly say that; it only says "I
stab you" and it also says "you bleed."  The sequential interpretation
(and/or the cause-and-effect interpretation)  is due to the way the world
works.  Or some worlds. 

Since it is possible to say either {jISop, jItlhutlh} "I eat, I drink" or
{jISop 'ej jItlhutlh} "I eat and I drink"  to refer to the same thing, it
might seem as though {'ej} is optional.  Grammatically, that's fair to
say.  In terms of meaning, however, when {'ej} is used, it adds something; 
it emphasizes or points out some sort of connection between the two events
-- though not necessarily a temporal one. 

Finally, although I've been referring to "events," the same holds for
states and conditions and the like.  Thus, {jIghung 'ej jIQeH} "I'm hungry
and I'm angry" ({ghung} "be hungry," {QeH} "be angry") could be used if
first I'm hungry and then (whether as a result of the pangs or not) I get
angry, or if I'm hungry and angry at the same time, or if I waver between
the two. 

In short, {'ej} is neutral as to time.
--------------------------- end quoted text ----------------------------

: 3)  What sort of column is meant by /tut/?   qachQeD mu' 'oH'a'?

Okrand has never used {tut} "column" in a sentence.  We don't know whether
refers to an architectural pillar or a military column of troops.  

FYI: In the new B'rel-class Bird of Prey poster, we have {QutlhwI'} a
"support", as in {qoD QutlhwI' ngaDmoHwI'} an "inner support stabilizer" (i.e.
one of those deck-to-overhead supports flanking the captain's chair that look
like large shock absorbers).  This implies a verb *{Qutlh} "support, hold
We also have a noun {ngaq} "support (military term)" in TKD.  In view of
{QutlhwI'}, I tend to think {tut} may well be a military term, but that's only
a guess at this point.
: 4)  jatlh peHruS:  "jIghelnIS:  chay' pIm mu' {ruQ} mu' {raQ} je?"
:     mu' {ghel} {pIm} je ghajbe' mu'ghom vIgherbogh.  nuQ 'oS?

  ghel  "ask (a question)" KGT 
  pIm   "be different" TKD

Ca'Non Master of the Klingons 

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