tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed May 12 14:02:56 1999

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Verbs of motion and locative notions

ja' pagh:
>The last bit is interesting. The only example of <'el> in canon that I
>think of is <HIq DatlhutlhmeH, tachDaq yI'el>. This suggests that the
>one enters is not the object of <'el>. As a result, I'd go with:
>    Qe'Daq wIwIvbogh ma'el.
>This may be a little controversial as well ...
: It's controversial, but it's also completely unnecessary.
: TKW page 181:  {HIq DaSammeH tach yI'el.}  "To find ale, go into a bar."
: This was the example that showed us that {'el} *does* have the place one
: enters as its object.

Other examples of {'el}:

  mIch 'elpu' jay'
  They've entered the @#$% sector! TKD (sic for {lu'elpu'}!)

  'ach HoD, Hevetlh wIghoSchugh veH tIn wI'el maH'e'! 
 But Captain, that course will take us into the Barrier as well. ST5

  tach vI'el, HItlhej
  Let's go to the pub. RT

  Enter! KGT 

That's not to say that {-Daq} can *never* be used, just that Okrand
use it.  Other Klingons might.  {'el} may well be another of those verbs
which he writes:

  "There are a few verbs whose meanings include locative notions, such
  as {ghoS} 'approach, proceed'. The locative suffix need not be used
  on nouns which are the objects of such verbs. ... If the locative
  suffix is used with such verbs, the resulting sentence is somewhat
  redundant, but not out-and-out wrong." (TKD p.28)

Just as I've heard people say in English: "He entered into the room" or,
a very common usage which I always cringe at, "He exited from the
aircraft."  Redundant, sure.  Poor style, you bet.  But not out-and-out
wrong, at least from a descriptivist's point of view since the usage is
widespread.  The proscriptivists will, of course, disagree.  For the
though, the best style is probably to omit {-Daq} when using {'el}.

Speaking of exiting, {mej} "leave, depart" and {tlheD} "depart" may work
similarly in that I'm not sure whether or not {-vo'} can be used with
verbs.  Here's how Okrand has used {mej} ({tlheD} has never been used):  

  ghorgh mamej? 
  When do we leave? CK

  vagh rep bImejnIS. 
  Check-out time is five A.M. CK

  bImejDI' reH betleHlIj yItlhap
  Never leave without your bat'telh. TKW

No examples of just what or where one leaves/departs from have appeared in
canon.  Is this simply an accident of the limited corpus, or evidence that
one cannot use a locative "object" at all: 

  ?ghorgh pa'vo' mamej
  ?ghorgh pa' wImej

  ?wa'Hu' Qo'noSvo' matlheD
  ?wa'Hu' Qo'noS wItlheD


va!  Klingon verbs of motion are, appropriately, slippery things.

Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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