tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 21 08:39:48 1999
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Re: qama'
In a message dated 2/23/99 10:52:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
<< That's what its object has been all along. TKD page 70: {chay' jura'}
-- ghunchu'wI'
>>
Second reply:
> Are you considering {ju-} containing both a subject "you" and and object
"us"?
Yes it is! That is exactly what TKD says! ju- is the verb prefix indicating a
subject of "you" and an object of "us"!
>Uh-oh. This is where Klingon differs from English but not from so many
American Indian languages of the western United States and Melanesian and
Micronesian languages, Mayan, Quechua, and Swahili (there might be many more
that I do not know about). >>
Who cares? This is a list about Klingon, not trans-language comparison! If
you want to talk about how Klingon differs from Earth languages, go to one of
the many trans-language comparison lists! If you want to talk Klingon, do so!
>The pronominal prefix is not a subject+object
combination at all. People who think in English might see it that way; but
it is not true. The pronominal prefix, by definition of being a pronominal
and a prefix, is a directional prefix. The prefix says who is doing the
action of the verb to whom. But, the subject of a sentence is a separate
word
and the object of the sentence is a separate word.
That is what subject and object are! The subject is the verb or does the verb
to someone or something, which is the object! They are separate words only
when they need to be in Klingon, since verbs are often sentences in their own
right.
>Examples: {loD legh puq} has four elements: object, null pronominal
prefix,
verb, and subject. {loD Dalegh} has three elements: object, pronominal
prefix indicating the direction of "you (singular) --> him/her/it/them," and
the verb. There is no subject in Klingon, even though there would be in the
English translation (You).
The subject is "you," as indicated by the prefix Da-. If there is no subject,
try using the suffix -lu' to get an indefinite subject. That's as close as it
gets in Klingon.
>{Dulegh} has two elements: the pronominal prefix
meaning "he/she/it --> you (sing.)" and verb. There is neither a subject nor
an object in the Klingon, only in the equivalent English.
bIQ ngaS HIvje'lIj!! The subject is "he/she/it," and the object is "you."
Your argument is completely groundless.
> {loD leghlu'} actually has four elements: obejct, pronominal prefix, verb,
and a verb suffix. The suffix indicates "indefinite subject"; but, there is
no subject in the Klingon sentence.
The subject is there! It is indefinite! chomoghmoH! yIyajchu': A subject
and an object are indicated by moHaqmey when there is an appropriate prefix,
but when there isn't, they are indicated by nouns. Got it?
>peHruS
>>
choyIv, peHruS. not tlhIngan Hol Dayajchu'. reH mayajchuqchu', 'ach reH Hol
DaqaD DaneH. yImev! Hol yIlaj 'ej yIlo'! bInuQ; ghIlab ghew Darur! Hol lo'
DaghoHDI', qagh DaHoH!
T'Lod