Re: RE: klbc: SIv

["William H. Martin" <whm2m@server1.mail.virginia.edu>]

On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:39:01 -0800 (PST) Steven Boozer 
<sboozer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:

> Rolando Coto:
> : i wonder who his enemy is.
> : me pregunto quien es su enemigo.
> : jaghDaj ghaH 'Iv 'e' vISIv.
>  
> pagh: 
> : This is a tough one - Okrand himself has not yet figured out <SIv>. The
> : first one is probably not correct - it involves a question as the object of
> : <SIv>, so it probably doesn't work. 
> 
> Why not make this a quote reporting your thought, thereby avoiding the
> dreaded QAO:
> 
> 	jIghel'egh: <jaghDaj ghaH 'Iv'e'?>
> 
> 	<jaghDaj 'Iv?> jISIv.

In both cases, the problem is that you are using words other 
than {ja'} or {jatlh} as verbs of speech. Other than that, it 
looks quite reasonable. The interview in the most recent HolQeD 
brought serious doubt to the idea that verbs like {ghel} and 
{SIv} could be used as verbs of speech. Okrand has used {tlhob} 
as a verb of speech, but it was clear that he later regretted 
that and would just as soon have us ignore that little example.

Given that, we'd be left with:

jIghel'egh. jIjatlh <<jaghDaj ghaH 'Iv'e'?>

<<jaghDaj 'Iv?>> jIjatlh. jISIv.

Meanwhile, in both cases, we have a Klingon talking to himself. 
I'm not sure this is a culturally acceptable situation. I may be 
wrong about that, but my uneasiness is sufficient to make me 
want to look at other options.

jaghDaj vIngu'laHbe'mo' jISIv.

Then I think {pIH} is likely to be a better verb, but I'm a 
little concerned that the definition is a bit vague. If a 
situation causes me to suspect something, then am I suspicious, 
or is the situation suspicious? In English, the verb works both 
ways. My Concise Oxford Dictionary uses the example, "His 
silence made me suspicious" and "under suspicious 
circumstances". Certainly the verb applies to both a person who 
suspects something and a thing which causes OTHERS to suspect 
something.

Since {pIH} means either "expect" (which sounds transitive) 
or "be suspicious" (which sounds intransitive), this brings me 
to consider the interesting relationship between expectation and 
suspicion. Usually suspicion involves something negative, but 
this is not always true. "I suspect she is preparing a surprise 
party for me."

I guess the difference is a question of degree. Suspicion 
implies a hunger to prove something that cannot yet be proven. 
Expectation lacks this connotation.

"I expect her to prepare a surprise party for me." See the 
difference in attitude here?

"Because her behavior is suspicious, I expect she is preparing a 
surprise party for me."

I think I'm going too far on this side-track...

Backing up.

I'll gamble and think it could be:

jaghDaj vIngu'laHbe'mo' jIpIH.
 
> Idle speculation ahead...
> 
> Okrand explained on st.klingon that the question word {nuq} can be used as
> a pronoun in "to be" sentences; his example was {yIH nuq} "What is a
> tribble?".  I'm wondering (jISIv!) whether {'Iv} might work the same way,
> at least in informal speech.
 
Sounds reasonable. It would be nice if he shows us someday.
 
> -- 
> Voragh                       
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

charghwI' 'utlh