tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Feb 01 08:43:32 1999
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Re: Near and far
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Near and far
- Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:42:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- In-Reply-To: <000001be4d36$c61fd420$1edc2599@david>
- Priority: NORMAL
On Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:48:32 -0800 (PST) David Trimboli
<[email protected]> wrote:
> The tricky part here is that the HolQeD interview completely contradicts
> much Klingon canon. Your example is contradicted. According to the
> interview, the sentence would have to be
>
> naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq wIjaHlaH'a'?
> or
> naDevvo' vaS'a' wIjaHlaH'a'?
>
> The way it is, {naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'?} means something more like
> "While we're in the Great Hall, can we go from here?" There are, I believe,
> numerous contradictions between what Okrand said in the interview, and the
> actual examples we have. If someone can justify a few of these for me . . .
> .
Good point. I personally preferred keeping {jaH} intransitive,
fitting the canon example you just pointed out. Especially with
the pairing of {naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq} there is such an obvious
direction set up that intransitive {jaH} makes perfect sense.
Meanwhile, I felt less like guiding Okrand to suit my
preferences than to just bring him to spell out as much detail
as possible.
Likely this is a decision he has made after reflection that
didn't occur before the example. Also, likely, he would argue
that he spelled out enough wiggle room in the interview (the
part about stick-in-the-muds) that both can be considered
correct, though I suspect your suggestions would be more
technically correct than the canon example, all while the canon
example would still be acceptable.
> By the way, the interview also gave us an answer to a long-standing
> question: the object of {bav} is the thing which is orbited (planet, star,
> etc.).
>
> yuQ bavtaH Duj.
> The ship orbits the planet.
That one I definitely expected. It was good to have it confirmed.
> SuStel
> Stardate 99083.4
charghwI' 'utlh
HovpoH 99087.46
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Boozer <[email protected]>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <[email protected]>
> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 7:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Near and far
>
>
> >: I have a strong preferece for {Y-Daq Hop X.} It makes a lot more
> >: sense. From a reference point at Y's location, X is far. {-vo'}
> >: is not a locative. It is a direction. It implies motion. {Hop}
> >: does not imply motion. Use {-Daq}.
> >
> >That's how I read the interview too. But since MO's examples used {Sum}, I
> >wasn't 100% certain. We do have one clear example using both {-Daq} and
> {-vo'}
> >together in PK:
> >
> > naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'?
> > Can we get to the Great Hall from here?
> >
> >Here, there is definitely movement implied - going from here to there -
> using
> >{jaH} even, which MO also discussed in your HolQeD interview.