tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 07 17:02:57 1999
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Re: SengwIj
>From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
>Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:41:40 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>
>On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:15:12 +-300 Carleton Copeland
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> jatlh charghwI' 'utlh:
>>
>> > lughDI' mu' <<buS>> mu' <<qIm>> lo' qa'ral
>> > 'ej *object* lo'laHbe' mu' <<qIm>>.
>>
>> QaghwIj vIchIDba'ta': The gloss on {qIm} in TKD gives no reason to believe
>> it can take an object. Curious, then, that {qImHa'} can. (You gotta
>> *disregard* something, qar'a'?) So, on top of all the other neat tricks it
>> can do with verbs, {-Ha} has at least once turned an intransitive verb into
>> a transitive.
vIHarbe'
>While this has been discussed, it has never been proven that
>your presumption is correct. So far as I know, {qIm} has only
>been used as a command in canon. {yIqIm! yIbuS!}. All instances
>in which an object was used involved {buS} and not {qIm}. As a
>command, "Disregard!" requires no object.
>
>We thought that {Dub} required no object, and we'd use {DubmoH}
>when we wanted an object, but in both canon examples we've had,
>{Dub} took an object. Usage supercedes the dictionary gloss
>whenever they disagree. Everyone knows that I'm much more
>conservative about interpreting these things than most people
>most of the time, so it is not surprising that I'll continue to
>not use an object with {qIm} or {qImHa'}. If I want to use an
>object, I'll use {buS} or {buSHa'}.
Huh. Me, I just assumed that the canon {qImHa'} clarified the meaning of
{qIm}, that {qIm} really *does* take an object. Obviously, like all
intransitives, it can be used without one, but it certainly does seem
reasonable to me that it means "to pay attention TO SOMETHING." This isn't
the same as the {Dub} flip-flop, which actually changed what got better;
this is a much lesser matter of determining whether or not an object makes
sense at all: everyone agrees that the {qImwI'} is the one paying the
attention.
To me, {qIm} means to attend to something, not to disregard or ignore it
but consider it and pay it mind. {buS} is similar but stronger: it's
glossed as "concentrate on, focus on, think only about," i.e., focus on
with special intensity, even with an implication of excluding other
distractions. I might tell an engineer <jonta' Hat yIqIm!> if I want to
make sure he keeps an eye on it, but not <jonta' Hat yIbuS> unless I have
another engineer minding all the other important stuff that goes on in the
engine room.
~mark