tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Mar 14 06:16:59 1998

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Re: Amar Qawlu'

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:33:22 -0800 (PST) Qov <[email protected]> 
wrote:
...
> "the device named Vejur" is an awkward thing to say in Klingon. We don't
> have a verb "to be named."  You could say "The device which uses 'Vejur' to
> name itself"  {pong'eghmeH <Vejur> lo'bogh jan'e'} but that can get unwieldy
> to fit into a long sentence.  Desgribe the naming in another sentence, then
> just refer to it as {jan} or "Vejur."

Another option would be (perhaps confusing for beginners):

janvaD *Vejur* ponglu'bogh

The problem is that the verb {pong} is "ditransitive". It has 
two direct objects (in English). "I call my dog Anzack." The 
subject is "I" and the two direct objects are "dog" and 
"Anzack". One object is the item called or named and the other 
is the name itself. The one example we have of this useage from 
Okrand is:

roD 'oHvaD juHqo' ponglu' neH.

The item named becomes the INDIRECT object and gets the {-vaD} 
suffix, so to say, "The device is named V-ger", note that we 
have a passive voice here, which is translated into Klingon as 
an indefinite subject using {-lu'} and we get:

janvaD *V-ger* ponglu'.

To make that a relative clause, "the device which is named 
V-ger", we say:

janvaD *V-ger* ponglu'bogh

It looks weird, but I would not know another good way to say it 
and I don't think it is really all that lengthy or obtuse, so 
perhaps we should be getting used to it. It does have the 
somewhat controversial use of a Type 5 noun suffix within a 
relative clause, but I think we can cope with that.

[Lots of other excellent advice snipped]

> It *wasn't* bad at all for a beginner. (charghwI' is, as he said, grouchy.
> So am I at times, but lucky you, this isn't one of those times).  Notably
> you make very good vocabulary choices, you understand prefixes, you
> understand OVS word order and you seem to understand the meanings of the
> suffixes you are using.  You even appear to be using the perfective
> properly, for which I could give you a prize. 
> 
> Your main weaknesses are using sentences that are too long for Klingon
> syntax; not knowing -- you had no way of knowing -- about the restrictions
> on {-ghach}; and misplaced chuvmey.  I have no doubt that you can correct
> these and write interesting, intelligible Klingon stories.  

I look forward to it.
 
> Qov     [email protected]
> Beginners' Grammarian                  

charghwI'

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