tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 08 18:30:15 1998
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Re: nganpu' qIj jar
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: nganpu' qIj jar
- Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 23:40:34 -0500
lut Doj Daqonpu'. DaH qalughnISmoH. pIj bIQagh.
I'm pleased to see such extended discourse from you, peHruS. Please
continue. However, your message was very difficult to read.
From: WestphalWz <[email protected]>
>qonwI': Dr. Barbara J. Love
>maghwI': peHruS
maghwI' DIHoH! bImughqu'.
>Theo qel lutvam. jajlo' vem ghaH, Hu', SoSvaD ghel:
>"SoSoy, tera'Daq nganpu' qIj tu'lu'be'chugh, chay'?"
{chay'} is an exclamation when used as you are apparently trying to. Just
what is he asking? I'm not sure what your meaning is. Perhaps {chay'
tera'Daq nganpu' qIj tu'lu'be'?}
>loQ Qub SoSDaj vaj jang:
"His mother thought for a bit, and so therefore answered." That {vaj} is
wrong. Either make it a new sentence, or make it {'ej}.
>"Theo, DaHjaj yItlhej.
This could be
"Theo, today, accompany."
"Theo, accompany him today."
"Theo, accompany today."
Accompany whom? "Me"? {Theo, DaHjaj HItlhej}. "Us"? {Theo, DaHjaj
ghotlhej}. What you have isn't grammatically wrong, but it doesn't make
much sense, especially since I have no context for this story other than
what you've already written, which isn't a lot.
>tera'Daq nganpu'
>tu'lu'be'chugh chay' 'e' wIwaH.
"If there are no inhabitants on Earth, how will I try that out?" That's the
most correct translation of what you've said, and it makes no sense.
>toH.
"Aha." Aha what? Did his mother just figure something out?
>DaH yItuQmoH vaj maruch."
"Now get dressed thus we proceed." Another {vaj} that's just plain wrong.
DaH maruchmeH yItuQmoH
or
maruchmeH DaH yItuQmoH
>Sut waqmey tuQmoHmeH Theo pa'DajDaq qet ghaH.
"Theo ran to his room in order to put on clothing shoes." What are clothing
shoes?
>cheghDI' ghaH bej SoSDaj
This indicates that his mother sat there and watched him. Perhaps you mean
{cheghDI' ghaH nuD SoSDaj}?
>'ej
>jatlh: "Theo, nuqDaq bIH waqmeylIj'e'? Habbe' SutlIj. vI'uynIS."
<'uy> Dalo'chu'ta' 'e' vIHar.
>'ach,
>'uywI' beQwI' nejDI' ghaH, tu'lu'be'.
"But, when he/she (can't tell who) looked for the presser-downer flat thing,
it wasn't there." You're apparently trying to describe an iron, but this
just doesn't do it. {'uywI' tuj} might be enough.
>'uywI' beQwI' 'oghta' Sarah Boone, be'
>qIj.
Now I'm not so sure you mean an iron. You're saying it's known who invented
the iron? I rather doubt that. So what's {'uywI' beQwI'} supposed to mean?
>tay'chuqmoHmeH waq SIrgh je jonta' 'oghta' Jan Matzelinger, loD qIj.
"Jan Matzelinger, a black man, invented the shoe and thread engine for
causing to be together each other." Work on that purpose clause. You
constantly misuse {tay'}. The subject is usually plural, or represents a
group of some sort, and there is no object. Adjust accordingly for using
{-moH}. {waq SIrgh je tay'moHmeH jonta'} "engine for causing shoe and
thread to be together." Whatever that is. An automatic shoe-lacing
machine?
>jatlh SoS: "toH. jIblIj DaHabmoH yIjaH!"
"Aha." Another revelation. Where's the discovery? I don't get it.
>pa'DajDaq qet Theo, 'ach jIb
>HabmoHwI' SamlaHbe'.
"Hair-smoother"? A hairbrush?
>'oH 'oghta' Walter Sammons, loD qIj.
A known man invented the *hairbrush*? No way, Jose. What are you trying to
say? (Wow, that all rhymes!)
>*brush* nej ghaH,
>'ach tu'lu'be'.
If you're using "brush" in English here, what's {jIb HabmoHwI'} supposed to
mean?
>'oghta' Lydia Newman, be' qIj.
So SHE supposedly invented the brush? Uh-uh.
>Do'Ha'! moHqu'!
qarchu'.
>waqmey
>Hutlh Theo; gheghqu' SutDaj; Habbe'qu' jIbDaj. yaHmo' 'oghwI'mey law'
>'oghta'bogh Madam C. Walker, be' qIj, ghIH je SoSDaj jIb.
"Because of duty station, many inventing things which Madam C. Walker, a
black woman, has invented, his mother's hair is also messy."
There's a clause in there which isn't connected to anything. And that
should be {Dochmey law' 'oghta'bogh Madam C. Walker."
>Suyaj'a'?
ghobe'.
>TheovaD jatlh SoSDaj: "juHmajDaq ghIghmeymaj DIchavpu'DI'
"As soon as you have achieved our assignments in our home," (I recognize the
slang term, that's no problem). "Achieved our assignments"? How about
{ghIghmeymay DarInmoHpu'DI'} "As soon as you have caused our assignments to
be finished"?
>SojqachDaq majaH."
What's wrong with {Qe'Daq majaH}?
>rav DI bI' Theo. bI'taH 'ej bI'taH. DI 'un woH ghaH neHDI' SamlaHbe'.
"When he wanted to throw away a rubble pot for food preparation, he couldn't
find it."
The terms for "pot" are used for food preparation, and I don't think they
have general application. How about {veQ ngaSwI'}?
veQ ngaSwI'Daq DI woH ghaH neHDI' SamlaHbe'.
>'oghta' Lloyd P. Ray, loD qIj.
What are you talking about? Someone who invented a garbage can? Come on!
That's really all I can make this out to be. You MUST be more precise.
Klingons may be inaccurate, but they are never approximate.
>wa' DopDaq DI lan ghaH. vaj ravDaq bIQ lo'
>ghaH 'ej bI'qa' neH ghaH.
"He placed the rubble to one side. Therefore, he used water on the floor
and merely resumed sweeping." (Or maybe "and he wanted to resume
sweeping.")
That's the third incorrect {vaj}.
>'ach bIQ lo'bogh bI'wI' tu'lu'be' je. 'oghta'
>Thomas W. Stewart, loD qIj.
This is more believable. A known man who invented the water-using vacuum
cleaner.
>SoSDajvaD jach Theo: "SoSoy, Do'Ha'!"
"Mommy, it's unfortunate!"
Not really the right word. How about {SoSoy, qay' latlh} "Mommy, something
else is wrong!" Literally, "Mommy, another thing is a problem."
>jang SoS: "toH.
Another revelation.
>Sutvam vISaymoHpu'DI' Soj tetlh wIqon."
{Say'} has an apostrophe.
"As soon as I finished cleaning these clothes we recorded the food list."
You mean a {HIDjolev}? What does this sentence mean, anyway?
>rIn Sut SaymoHbogh
>Qu', vaj QaDmoHwI' Sutmey lan SoS neH ghaH.
Hmm, should {Sut} be made plural? If is is, you need {lulan}.
>'ach QaDmoHwI' tu'lu'be'.
>'oghta' George T. Sampson, loD qIj.
>
>Soj tetlh luqonmeH chaH ghItlhwI' nav je qem Theo 'e' tlhob SoS.
Same problem as before. What does it mean?
>qet Theo,
>'ach cheghDI' jejHa' ghItlhwI' 'e' 'ang ghaH. 'ach jejmoHlaHbe'.
ghItlhwI'
>jejmoHwI' 'oghta' John Love, loD qIj.
A pencil sharpener?
>baS ghItlhwI' nej SoS, 'ach SamlaHbe'.
"Metal writer." What's that?
>'oghta' William Purvis, loD qIj. De' ghItlhmeH jonta' 'oghta' Lee Burridge
>'ej *printing press* 'Itlh 'oghta' W. A. Lovette.
What's a {De' ghItlhmeH jonta'} "engine for writing information"?
>Sojqach lughoS Theo SoSDaj je 'e' luwuq.
If all this stuff were disappearing on me, I'd have more important things to
do than go to the restaurant! {Qe'}.
>lojmIt poSmoHDI' Theo tI jen legh
>ghaH; jen; rur Theo.
What, is it floating above the ground or something? {jen} means "high."
"Tall" is {runHa'}. And you've got the comparison backwards:
lojmIt poSmoHDI' Theo, tI legh. runHa'; Theo rur.
But this presupposes we know Theo to be tall. Since it's the tallness of
the brass we're talking about (and it took me a minute to realize you were
talking about grass, and not a plant at the restaurant), that's going to be
the subject of both sentences.
>tI pe'meH jonta' (lawn mower) 'oghta' John Burr, loD
>qIj.
This one I would have gotten. Funny you give us this one.
>yavDujchaj luyong, 'ach chu'laHbe'.
I'll let {yavDuj} slide, since we don't have "car." "Groundship" still
sounds very funny to me. {Duj} may or may not mean "vehicle of any sort."
>*automatic gear shift* 'oghta'
>Richard Spikes, loD qIj. QuQ qoDDaq nIn meQmeH Hujchu'bogh pat
mIqta'(Let's
>see who figures this one out!) 'oghta' Jospeh Gammel, loD qIj.
Sounds a little like fuel injection. "Bizarre system machinery for burning
fuel in an engine's interior." You don't talk like this in English, do you?
What are you doing, playing at some guessing game? Are you trying to be
dense in your writing? That's definitely not appreciated.
You seem to be using {QuQ} to mean "engine" as in a thing which powers a
vehicle, and {jonta'} as in "thing which operates under its own power." I
see no reason to make this distinction. I'm not even sure if the second
English definition is included in either word.
>vIH yavDujmey
>puS 'ach Hutlhmo' SeHmeH wovwI'mey ngeQchuq Hoch. yavDujmey SeHmeH wovwI'
>'oghta' Garrett A. Morgan, loD qIj.
"but because the bright things for controlling lack, everyone/everything
bumps into each other." Huh? What's a {SeHmeH wovwI'} "bright thing for
controlling"?
>cholmo' choS,
{chol} is a time reference, {chol} refers to physical movement. Never the
twain shall meet.
>SojqachDaq yIt chaH, Soj tlhap, juHDaq chegh. nIm, QIm, tlhagh
>je pol 'e' lunIDDI' bIrmoHmeH jan tu'lu'be'. 'oghta' John Standard, loD
qIj.
>vaj beQwI'Daq Soj lulan.
There's that {beQwI'} again. What does "flat thing" mean to YOU?
>DaH loQ bIr 'e' tlhoj Theo. tujmoHmeH jan leQ lIS SoSDaj neH ghaH, 'ach
>tu'lu'be'. wej tujmoHmeH jan 'oghta'mo' Alice Parker, be' qIj, wej leQ
>'oghta' je.
{wej}? You mean they've traveled back in time, along with everything they
own, providing it's been invented in the new time frame?
> qaStaHvIS poH tuj, juH muD bIrmoHlaHbe' je. bIrmoHmeH jan
>'oghta' Frederick Jones, loD qIj.
>
>chollI' juHDaq cheghmeH Theo vav poH.
Ick. Except for the fact that you've used {chol} once again to refer to an
approaching time, this actually makes sense, if you take the time to untwist
it. I'd probably change the order of the purpose clause. I'm not at all
happy with the {-Daq} noun, either. That makes it almost unintelligable.
Here's how I would say it: {tugh chegh Theo vav}. Simple.
>roD lupwI' lIgh ghaH. 'ach lupwI'
>tu'lu'be'mo' paS ghaH. 'ul lo'bogh *trolley*'e' 'oghta'bogh Elbert R.
>Robinson 'oH lupwI' nubwI''e'.
"Jitney suspect"? What does that mean?
Perhaps instead of {'ul lo'bogh *trolley*'e'} (which makes perfect sense as
it is), you could say, {*trolley*'e' laQbogh 'ul}. Or {*trolley*'e'
QapmoHbogh 'ul}. Just some suggestions.
>pawDI' Theo vav, Doy'qu'. qach patlh cha'maHDIch yaHDajvo' mejDI' ghaH,
roD
>nuvpu' SalmoHwI' lIgh ghaH. 'ach SalmoHwI' 'oghta' Alexander Miles, loD
qIj.
He rode down the elevator (I know it's not an escalator only because one
does not usually ride an escalator down twenty one floors), and that works
fine in English, but in Klingon you've got to invent a word for "elevator,"
and you've chosen "thing which makes people go *up*." Seems like it's a
one-way device. In this case you might call it a {nuv SalHa'moHwI'} "thing
which makes people go back down," though this is as one-way as the other.
Perhaps you could use {nuv lupmeH pa'} "people transport room," or {vIHbogh
pa'} "room which moves." Try to find something which is less one-way.
>motlh Sumbogh jabbI'ID ngaSwI'Daq pIn'a'Daj QInmey lan Theo vav.
"Theo's father usually places his great boss' messages in a nearby data
transmission container." A data transmission is not a physical thing. How
can he place it in something else? What sort of messages require a special
type of container to hold them?
>'ach
>jabbI'ID ngaSwI' (drop box) 'oghta' Philip Downing, loD qIj. QIn qatwI'
>HurDaq HuchHey qIlmeH jan 'oghta' William Barry, loD qIj.
"William Barry, a black man, invented the device for cancelling apparent
money in the message wrapper's outside." Huh?
>vutpa' raS retlhDaq ba' Theo SoSDaj je; nachDu'chaj 'uch. pawDI' Theo vav,
>ghel: "qatlh pa' HurghDaq Suba'?" qatlh?
Isn't it obvious by now?
>wovwI' qoD SIrgh 'oghta' Lewis
>Howard Latimer, loD qIj.
I'm not particularly fond of {wovwI'} as a general replacement for "light"
and "light bulb," but I don't have a better suggestion.
>nganpu' qIj Hutlhchugh tera', ghu' ngu'pu' Theo.
"If Earth lacks black inhabitants, the Theo has identified the situation."
This is not what you mean. How about
nganpu' qIj Hutlhpu' tera' 'e' ngu' Theo.
Theo has identified that Earth lacks black inhabitants.
>DaH latlh ghoj ghaH neH
>ghaH. paqmey laDmo' ghaH, 'Iw polmeH mIw 'oghta' Charles Drew 'ej tIq poS
>Haqpa' ghot pIm Haqpu' Dr. Daniel Hale Williams 'e' ghoj Theo.
>
>wanI' law' buSnIS Theo, SoSDaj, vavDaj je.
The fate of the world rests on their shoulders.
>rIn Theo lut qonbogh Dr. Barbara J. Love
>
>chel peHruS
>
>qIjbe'chugh wo'rIv Dabogh loD, Michael Dorn,
>chay'?.............................
{chay'} what? {chay'} is a question word meaning "how?" and an exclamation
meaning, "What the hell is going on?!?" That's all.
SuStel
Stardate 98182.6