tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Mar 03 13:53:00 1998
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KLBC: veS Sov
- From: [email protected] (Alan Anderson)
- Subject: KLBC: veS Sov
- Date: Tue, 3 Mar 98 16:44:38 EST
ja' Edy:
> rIn *Carnaval* vaj jIchegh :-))
lop'a'vetlh DatIv'a'? maHvaD wanI'lIj'e' yIDel.
Hoch 'ebmey tIjon! mu'mey tIQ tImughQo' neH.
You're passing up a great opportunity to practice your skills, Edy!
Tell us about "Carnaval." Use your own words. Don't just translate
ancient manuscripts.
> The "art" of war (The knolegde of war)
There are some who would call this the "science" of war.
> wo'vaD potlhqu' veS Suv. yIn Hegh ghap Hap 'oH
>vaj wanI'mey HochDaq qelnIS veS Sov.
I assume {veS Suv} is just a typo; you got it correct in the subject.
Otherwise, your first sentence is okay.
The word "matter" in the idiomatic phrase "a matter of life or death"
doesn't refer to the physical substance which makes up an object.
It's more like a situation or concept which must be considered. I'd
use {ghu'} if I wanted to translate this literally.
Speaking of "must be considered" -- you've made a consistent error in
your use of {qel} throughout this piece. It means "consider". The
subject is the person or thing doing the considering, and the object
is the person or thing being considered. Your usage would be okay if
it meant "be considered", but that's not what it means.
If you want to say "all [things]", {Hoch} comes first. "All events"
should be {Hoch wanI'mey}. "In all things" is not really a locative
concept, so {-Daq} isn't the right way to translate it. I'm not going
to try to fix the last sentence for you; it needs too many corrections
and you don't need to be bombarded with too much at once.
> qelnISbogh vagh Qu'mey potlh tu'lu':
Strict rules of grammar call for the {lu-} prefix on {tu'lu'}, but
canon examples usually omit it. But since you've misused {qel}, the
sentence needs to be restructured anyway. Try this:
{vagh Qu'mey potlh luqelnISlu'}.
>1. chut quv: DevwI'chaj muvghom matlhchoHmoH(1).
{chut quv} might be understandable as "the honor of a law", but I'm
sure most people would interpret it as "an honorable law." You seem
to want {quv chut} "the law of honor."
I know you intend the thing in front of the colon to be a title, but
Klingon grammar doesn't let it flow as smoothly as the English. It's
properly the subject of the next sentence. In cases like this, I
often turn the title into a complete sentence: {quv chut'e' qellu'}
or something like that. Note the {-'e'} "topic" suffix, which I think
is appropriate for something like this.
What do you mean by {muvghom}? {muv} and {ghom} are verbs, and don't
fit together like this. Is it a typo for {nuvghom} "person-group"?
"People" is {nuvpu'}.
>(1) DevwI'chaj muvghom matlhchoHmoH. I'm not sure if it means:
> "it cause loyal the people their leaders".
That's pretty much what it means, yes. Unfortunately, it's nonsense.
Do you mean "it causes the people to be loyal to their leaders"? We
don't have a verb "be loyal to", so you'll have to indicate who is the
beneficiary of the verb. In a case like this with {-moH}, deciding
who is really getting the action of the verb isn't straighforward, so
I'd opt for rephrasing the sentence to avoid {-moH}.
{chutvammo' DevwI'chajvaD matlh nuvpu'} "Because of this law, people
are loyal to their leaders."
>lughoStaHvIS Suvrup 'ej Hegh luqaDvIpbe'. Qob luHajbe'.
I'm pretty sure {ghoS} doesn't get across the idea of "following a
leader" except in a physical sense of moving toward him. Think {lob}.
Except for this, these sentences seem fine.
>2. chal: pem rom je 'oH; muD bIr tuj muD je 'oH 'ej muD
{rom} is "accord"; you apparently just misspelled {ram} "night".
The last part of this sentence is extremely scrambled. I can only
assume what you meant to say from the English you provided below.
I think you meant {muD bIr muD tuj je 'oH}, which is rather odd
because {'oH} is singular and {je} makes a plural object. Tossing
{'ej muD} at the end doesn't work; {muD} isn't a sentence. You want
"weather" to be conjoined with the heat and cold as another noun.
But you've confounded things by talking about "hot atmosphere", so
{muD} isn't going to fit well as "weather" at the same time. Try
using {muD Dotlh}.
>3. puH: chuq tIq chuq mach je 'oH; Qob Hung je 'oH;
> puHmey beQ HuDmey 'oH 'ej yIn Hegh je 'ebmey
If you're going to talk about {chuq mach} "small distance", you
probably should use {chuq tIn} "big distance" too. Again, the
phrasing {...je 'oH} sounds very strange here.
You've done the same sort of thing here as with the previous section,
putting a noun out after a sentence conjunction. Either bring it in
before {je} with the other nouns, or make it a parallel sentence with
another {'oH} at the end.
>4. pIn: ghobmey law' Hech: Sov nuv 'Il nuv yoH nuv naQ(2) je
I don't think {ghob} refers to this meaning of "virtue". It seems to
me to be talking about ethics, morality, a code of conduct. I think
you want something like "positive attributes" or "good features", but
I can't think of a simple way to say it.
{Hech} means "intend, mean to (do something)". I'm not really sure
what you want to say in the first part of this section, and your
English translation doesn't help much. Can you get more specific?
The second part is very confusing. All those words are strung
together with all the verbs acting as adjectives, and there are no
"real" verbs at all.
"Knowledge, a sincere person, a brave person, and a complete person."
>(2) I don't know if I can use "a sincere person" and so on,
> to express the substantive "sincerity", or the Verbal
> Suffix 9 -ghach "naQtaHghach" - act of been sincere.
> I always try to avoid its use.
{naQ} means "be whole, be entire", and I have no idea why you used it.
The English you provided doesn't have this concept in it.
If you want to talk about "sincerity" as a noun you'll probably have
to use {-ghach}. Since you seem to be translating an established
work, you're stuck with either doing it that way or coming up with an
alternative phrase to express a similar idea.
>5. mIw Sun je: mangghom patlh 'oH; yaS moch;
At least you didn't try to use {'ej} here the way you did in the
earlier sections. The problem remains, though: because of the
OBJECT-VERB-SUBJECT order of a Klingon sentence, you can't just toss
more objects on at the end the way English does. You either have to
make it a complete sentence or join all the nouns together with {je}.
{yaS moch} is "the officer's superior". You probably just wanted to
use {moch}.
> QaSvaD pawmeH boQ Quvmey leH 'ej QI'mey jomey loH
"It maintains the coordinateses [sic] of the aide for arriving for the
troops, and it administers the militaries' resourceses [sic]." Huh?
{Quv} is already "coordinates", and {jo} is already "resources", so
I'm not sure what putting {-mey} on them yields. What do you mean to
imply by {QI'mey} "plural militaries"? And why didn't you use {He}
"course" here?
{luch HevmeH QaS Hemey leH} "it maintains the courses in order for the
troops to receive equipment."
>vagh Qu'meyvam Sov SovnISchu' Sa'. Sovchu'chugh nuv nuv vaj Qap
>'ach Sovbe'chugh nuv vaj luj.
I think you've got an extra {Sov} and an extra {nuv} in there. Taking
them out gives a grammatically correct pair of sentences that mean
about the same thing as the English translation given below. A more
direct translation would use {-bogh} instead of {-chugh}, but you've
gotten the idea across.
> The "art" of war is extreme important for the empire. It's a
>matter between life and death then it must be accounted
>in all circunstances .
>
> There are 5 important tasks which must be consider:
>
>1. The "moral" law: it will cause the people to be loyal their leader.
> While they are following him they will ready to fight and they
> won't afraid to challenge the death. They won't dread the danger.
>
>2. The sky: It means the day and the night; the heat and the cold
> and the weather.
>
>3. The land: The land is the large and small distances; the danger
> and the security; the flat lands and mountains and the opportunities
> of life and death.
>
>4. The boss: He means many virutues: the knoledge, sincerity and
> the brave.
>
>5. The "metlhod" and discipline: it's the rank of the army; the
> superior officers; the maintenance of the roads in order to
> the supplies arrive to the troops.
>
> A General must know perfectly these 5 tasks. The person who
>knows them will succed but the person who doesn't know them
>will fail.
With a few minor exceptions, the English here is a pretty accurate
rendition of the Klingon, warts and all. That frustrates me a lot,
because I can't tell whether your errors are in your understanding of
Klingon or of English. :-/ I'd like to know what language you were
working from in the first place -- was this piece originally in
Portugese? English? Italian?
*sigh* It's always a challenge working with translations of someone
else's words. It's harder yet when I have to deal with doubly- or
even triply-translated sentences. Edy, please don't do this to me
again. You don't need practice translating things like this. You
need practice expressing your *own* ideas. I agreed to help you learn
how to speak Klingon, but I'm not going to do it by going over your
translations of things you read in books. Translations are *hard*,
and editing them is hard work too.
-- ghunchu'wI'