tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 24 14:41:32 1998
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Verbs of saying
- From: Steven Boozer <[email protected]>
- Subject: Verbs of saying
- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:41:07 -0500 (CDT)
Qov writes:
:> -=> Quoting qeyyoH 'elISabetlh to Lisa Stapp <=-
:> q> Qaghmey'e' HIja'
:
: Unless I am confused (not an impossibility), canon shows the object of
: {ja'} to be the person addressed, not the thing reported. The object
: of jatlh can be a language, speech, etcetera. So {lut ja'} is not
: substantiated in canon, but {lut jatlh} is probably right.
Here's what I have on {ja'} "tell, report" (v.):
"Similarly, with verbs of saying (say, tell, ask, etc.), {'e'} and {net} are
not used. The two phrases simply follow one another, in either order:
{qaja'pu' HIqaghQo'} or {HIqaghQo' qaja'pu'} 'I told you not to interrupt
me'. This is literally, 'I told you, "Don't interrupt me!"' or `"Don't
interrupt me!" I told you.' ... An aspect marker (here, {-pu'} perfective)
may always be attached to the verb of saying, regardless of whether it is
the first or second verb." (TKD 67)
yIja'Qo' Don't tell him! TKD
yIja''egh Tell yourself! TKD
peja''egh Tell yourselves! TKD
qaja' I tell you. TKD
qaja'pu' I told you. TKD
qaja'qang I am willing to tell you. TKD
nuja'rup They are prepared to tell us. TKD
HIja'neS Do me the honor of telling me. TKD
choja'chugh if you tell me. TKD
choja'pa' before you tell me. TKD
choja'Qo'chugh if you won't tell me (if you refuse to tell me). TKD
And, of course, there's our old friend {ja'chuq} "discuss, confer" (v.)
ja'chuqmeH rojHom neH jaghla'
The enemy commander wishes a truce (in order) to confer. TKD
maja'chuqjaj?
[Uhh...] Can we talk? PK
'uQ wISoppu'DI' maja'chuq.
We will talk after dinner. PK
However, take a look at:
nuja' tlhIngan wIch ja'wI'pu'
According to Klingon legend... S8
(lit. "Klingon myth-tellers tell us...")
Is {wIch ja'wI'} a noun-noun phrase "myth/legend teller/reporter" (i.e. a
bard, griot, etc.), or can this be a hint that {wIch} can be - or was -
sometimes used as an object of {ja'}? *{tlhIHvaD wa' qeylIS wIch vIja'
vIneH} "I want to tell you all one of the legends of Kahless." Probably
not, but I thought I'd put the suggestion on the table.
Note that verbs of saying *can* take direct objects, but that quotations are
not considered direct objects in Klingon and simply follow or preceed a verb
without an obect prefix. This shouldn't have caused the confusion that it
does since reported speech is often exceptional in languages, as anyone who
has studied Latin can attest. Here's what Okrand said about {jatlh} on
STC's Expert Forum (6/97):
'The object of {jatlh} speak is that which is spoken. Thus, it's OK to say
"speak a language", for example {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} "you speak Klingon".
But it's also OK to say "speak an address, speak a lecture", for example
{SoQ Dajatlh} "you speak an address" or, more colloquially, "you deliver an
address" or "you make a speech". To say simply {jatlh} "he/she speaks"
implies "he/she speaks it", where it is a language or a lecture or whatever.
The indirect object of {jatlh}, when expressed, is the hearer/listener. Thus
{qama'pu'vaD tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} "you speak Klingon to the prisoners",
{qama'pu'vaD SoQ Dajatlh} "you make a speech to the prisoners". When the
indirect object (in this case, the hearer) is first or second person, the
pronominal prefix which normally indicates first or second person object may
be used. There are other examples of this sort of thing with other verbs.
For example, someone undergoing the Rite of Ascension says {tIqwIj
Sa'angnIS} "I must show you [plural] my heart". The pronominal prefix in
this phrase is {Sa-}, which means "I [do something to] all of you" in such
sentences as {Salegh} "I see you [plural]" but when there's already an
object (in this case, {tIqwIj} "my heart)", the 'object' of the prefix is
interpreted as the indirect object, so {Sa-} means {I [do something to] it
for you" or the like... Since the object of {jatlh} is that which is spoken,
and since you or I or we cannot be spoken (and therefore cannot be the
object of the verb), if the verb is used with a pronominal prefix indicating
a first- or second-person object, that first or second person is the
indirect object. Which is a not very elegant way of saying that {qajatlh}
means "I speak to you" or, more literally, perhaps "I speak it to you",
where "it" is a language or a speech or whatever: {qajatlh} "I speak to
you", {Sajatlh} "I speak to you [plural]", {chojatlh} "you speak to me",
{tlhIngan Hol qajatlh} "I speak Klingon to you". There's another wrinkle to
this. The verb {jatlh} can also be used when giving direct quotations:
{tlhIngan jIH jatlh} "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'", {jatlh tlhIngan jIH}
"he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'". (With verbs of saying, such as {jatlh}, the
phrase that is being said or cited may come before or after the verb.) If
the speaker is first or second person, the pronominal prefix indicating `no
object' is used: {tlhIngan jIH jIjatlh} "I say, 'I am a Klingon'", {tlhIngan
jIH bIjatlh} "you say, 'I am a Klingon'". There are instances where the
pronominal prefix marks a big distinction in meaning: {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh}
"you speak Klingon" [vs.] {tlhIngan Hol bIjatlh} "you say, 'Klingon
language'" [that is "you say the phrase 'Klingon language'"].'
Thus, {lut jatlh} is definitely correct. A bit more from Okrand on {jatlh}
- and, by extension, other verbs of saying - on the Expert Forum (7/97)
'... it's OK to say: {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vItul} "I hope that you speak
Klingon", {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vIQub} "I think that you speak Klingon",
{tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vISov} "I know that you speak Klingon", {tlhIngan
Hol Dajatlh 'e' vISIv} "I wonder if you speak Klingon". (The fourth example
is weird from an English translation point of view, but it falls right in
line in Klingon. If the English translation matched the pattern of the other
three sentences, it would be "I wonder that you speak Klingon". In English,
this means something like "I'm surprised that you speak Klingon" or "I don't
understand how it can be that you speak Klingon", but this is not what the
Klingon sentence means. The Klingon sentence means something more like "I am
curious about whether you speak Klingon". The clumsiness here is the
English, not the Klingon.) One other verb that can be used in the V slot in
such sentences is {Hon} "doubt": {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vIHon} "I doubt
that you speak Klingon".'
And just for the sake of completeness, the examples of {jatlh} in canon:
yIjatlhQo'
Be quiet! (Don't speak!) TKD
bIjatlh 'e' yImev
Shut up! (Stop speaking!) TKD
tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh'a'
Do you speak Klingon? TKD
tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhlaHbe'
I cannot speak Klingon. TKD
I don't speak Klingon. CK
bIjatlhQo'chugh
if you refuse to speak. TKD
bIjatlhHa'chugh qaHoH = qaHoH bIjatlhHa'chugh
If you say the wrong thing, I will kill you. TKD
DIvI' Hol Dajatlh'a'
Do you speak Federation Standard? CK
'eb Qav jatlhpu'
He said, "Last call!" CK
qatlh bIjatlh?
[Why do you say (that)? (untranslated)] PK
bIjatlh 'e' yImev
Shut up! PK
jIjatlhpa' jatlh Hovmey.
The stars will talk before I will. PK
'avwI'vaD jatlh qama' jIghung.
A prisoner says to the guard, "I am hungry." PK
jatlh qama' jI'oj.
The prisoner says, "I am thirsty." PK
jatlh qama' jIDoy'qu'.
The prisoner says, I am very tired." PK
jatlh 'avwI' jIDoy'be'!
The guard says, "I am NOT tired." PK
yIjatlh! (untranslated) ST5
bIjatlh 'e' yImev. yItlhutlh.
Stop talking! Drink! TKW
Dajatlhbogh vIyajbe'. yIjatlhqa'!
I find no match for what you have just said. Please say it again. (KCD
.wav file)
yIjatlh!
Speak!
[This is one response to {nuqneH}: "Sometimes the response is {yIjatlh!}
(Speak!),
after which the person who began the conversation continues." (KGT 184)]
qep'a' wejDIchDaq jatlhtaH tlhIngan Hol HaDwI'pu'.
(MO post to SuStel on the Expert Forum 11/96)
These last two from TNG episodes are NOT canon, but they are correct
(mirabile dictu!), especially the first in light of MO's Expert Forum posts
above:
*Holchaj yIjatlh!
"Speak in their language!" (A Matter of Honor)
*jatlh!
"Speak!" (Unification I)
- Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons