tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 01 15:47:38 1998

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Re: KLBC: Q on {-meH} (was: long weekend with MO)

: ter'eS, Voragh and charghwI' discuss the following sentences
: (with respect of indefinite subject "it")
:    [snip]
: Can I please have a summary of how the meaning of {-meH}
: is extended by Okrandian usage?

It's late and I want to think about this a bit, but a couple of observations.  

{-meH} isn't being extended, just indefinite subjects--a feature which I
think was present in the language from the very beginning, we just didn't
have clear evidence of it due to the limited nature of the sample until
Okrand's {SIS} "It is raining".  (Klingons obviously don't spend a lot of
time talking about the weather, but Okrand, being human, does.)  I also
pointed out that we've always had {Do'Ha'} "It is unfortunate" as a complete
thought in Klingon (from somewhere in TKD).  If this is not evidence of
indefinite usage, what then does "it" refer to?

: yaS SuvmeH Qatlh (Qu').
: It (The task) is difficult to fight the officer.

My view:  {yaS SuvmeH Qatlh} is correct for "It is difficult to fight the
officer" (i.e. in general).  "It" does not need to have an antecedent and
using {Qu'} as an overt subject is quite wrong.  I think Klaa's question
from ST5 {qIpmeH Qatlh'a'?} "Difficult to hit?} supports this usage.  Others
disagree.
 
: qIpmeH Qatlh'a' nejwI'?
: Is the probe difficult to hit?

In the above, {nejwI'} is the subject of the Klingon sentence, which is
clearly wrong.  If you split off the second clause, you will realize you are
not asking {Qatlh'a' nejwI'?} "Is the probe difficult?".  The probe is not
doing anything, it is merely a passive target.  Something is being (or will
be) done to the probe, it is receiving the action of the verb "hit", the
very definition of a grammatical object.  charghwI''s version (IMHO) should
read {nejwI' qIpmeH Qatlh'a'?} "Is it difficult to hit the probe?" or even
{nejwI' vIqIpmeH Qatlh'a'?} "Is it difficult *for me* to hit the probe?"
This again leaves us arguing over how to render "is it difficult?" in Klingon.  

What, if anything, does "it" refer to in sentences of this type?

: Marc Ruehlaender

Voragh

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