tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 27 09:23:48 1998
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Re: KLBC - Ha'DIbaH pub loDHom
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC - Ha'DIbaH pub loDHom
- Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:23:40 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
voragh, {pub} wIqelDI', maQoch.
Look closer at the wording. Even in English, Okrand uses {pub}
intransitively. The rest, he uses transitively, though only
{mIQ} gives us actual use in a Klingon sentence.
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Steven Boozer
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "This proverb suggests that it is better to take the initiative than to
> simply react to situations. Blood, the controller, does not need an
> external influence in order to heat up; one need not draw strength from
> the outside." (TKW p.32)
There's no actual mention of "boil" or {pub} in that quote.
> And one more mention of {pub} in KGT:
>
> "If heat is used as part of food preparation, the cook is most likely
> to {mIQ} (deep-fry) the food. This involves first acquiring {tlhagh}
> (animal fat) from any available source and then heating it up so that it
> boils (the general word for boil is {pub}, but the verb used specifically
> to refer to the boiling of fat is {'Im} [render]).
See? "...and then heating it up so that it boils (the general
word for boil is {pub})..." So, he is saying that when one
{mIQ}s something, one is heating up fat so that it boils. One is
not "boiling" the fat. One is heating it up so that it boils.
The heating is transitive. The boiling is intransitive. {mIQ} is
transitive in Okrand's useage and {pub} is consistently
intransitive. He can always change this with other canon, but
everything you've presented points to {pub} being alone in this
cluster of words in its intransitivity.
> ...After it has been
> boiling for a while,...
Again, note that the food is boiling. The cook is not boiling
the food. The cook is heating the food so it boils.
> ...the food to be fried is tossed in (sometimes having
> been coated in some kind of paste), and it stays there until it has soaked
> up as much of the {tlhagh} (fat) as possible." (KGT p.93)
>
> As for {mIQ}:
>
> "Experienced cooks will {mIQ} (fry) the {DIghna' por} (digna leaf), though
> this is risky, since if the leaf is heated for too long, it will wilt."
> (KGT p.94)
>
> to'waQ mIQ vutwI'
> The cook deep-fries the tendon. (KGT)
Every mention of {mIQ} indicates transitive useage.
> {'Im} was not used in any examples.
{'Im} is a bit more vague, but I do read it as transitive, just
because the gloss "render" is transitive and all other
references are ambiguous. I'd rather see an example in a Klingon
sentence before I got really confident about this, however.
> Hmmm... these seem to indicate that {pub}, {mIQ} and {'Im} can also be
> transitive. That is, they are things the cook does to the food.
No. Not for {pub}. yIlaDqa'!
> > One of the foodstuffs mentioned on an audiotape is {pubtaHbogh ghargh HIq}
> > "boiling wormwine". {pub} "boil" here apparently describes something which
> > is boiling, not someone or something which brings something to a boil. In
> > the sentence above, I think {pubmoH} is the right word.
> >
> > -- ghunchu'wI'
>
> The full quote, for those curious:
>
> pubtaHbogh ghargh HIq vItlhutlh.
> I will drink boiling wormwine. (PK)
>
> This is clearly intransitive: "wormwine which continually boils".
As are all other references to {pub}.
> Are these three more "bi-transitive" verbs (i.e. either transitive or
> intransitive, depending on the particular usage)? Note that none of them
> have been used with {-moH} by Okrand.
Well, two of them don't look like they SHOULD be used with
{-moH} in most settings, and {pub} simply has not appeared in
any setting where it was transitive, so {-moH} has not been
necessary.
> --
> Voragh "Grammatici certant et adhuc sub judice
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons lis est." Horace (Ars Poetica)
charghwI'