tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Aug 07 18:26:42 1998
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Re: lopno' - looking for general comment
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: lopno' - looking for general comment
- Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:49:58 -0400
From: William H. Martin <[email protected]>
>Well, for one thing, while I don't have the article in front of
>me, I think that Okrand said the prefix thing worked "when the
>prefix indicates a first or second person object". {vI-} does
>not satisfy that criterion. You may argue that {vI-} combined
>with {-lu'} has the MEANING of a prefix with a first person
>object, but the fact is, {vI-} does not indicate a first person
>object. It indicates a THIRD person object and fails to work for
>the prefix shortcut. I don't think we are following the actual
>rule here for indirect object prefix shortcuts.
TKD pp. 38:
Those prefixes which normally indicate first- or second-person subject and
third-person singular object . . . are used to indicate first- or
second-person object.
Thus, {vI-}, when combined with {-lu'}, DOES indicate a first- or
second-person object, which is what the prefix trick requires. Sure, you
might argue that Okrand meant "if that's what it says on the chart on TKD p.
33," but that's not what he said.
Personally, I don't like the prefix trick combined with {-lu'} either, but
there's no way you can argue it into oblivion. It DOES follow the letter of
the law.
That said, I will encourage people not to use it. Why try to promote
grammatical bits which might be wrong, when you have an exact equivalent
which certainly is right? If more evidence comes along later, fine, but
stick to what we know for now.
>You might think this is always true with {-lu'}, but in fact,
>most useage of {-lu'} has heavy cues that something is afoot
>before {-lu'} ever gets here.
Such as?
>2. The suffix {-lu'} requires that the prefix always refers to a
>third person singular object, or no object at all.
The prefix is one which is *normally* used for third person objects, but it
is used to *indicate* a first- or second-person object. {jIH vIDellu'} "I
am described." The object is first person singular, and the prefix
indicates this.
SuStel
Stardate 98600.3