tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Oct 10 14:17:34 1997

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Re: choH yabwIj



According to Stauffer, Tad E:
> 
> 
> jatlh SuStel:
> > *sigh*  Here we have a discrepency in the transitivity of {choH}.
> > 
>    Actually, in TKD, under choH we have "alter, change," suggesting that
> {choH} might have just a transitive meaning, as in KGT.  However, we
> still have an intransitive meaning used in ST5.  Perhpas when Klaa said
> {HIv He yIchoHmoH}, he *was* using the transitive meaning, giving an
> order to his crewman as "Make [the computer] alter the attack course!"

This would not work according to our canon example (which I'm
not going to remember) from one of the cards listed in HolQeD,
in which a transitive verb had {-moH} added to it. Until then,
we were used to something like:

SojwIj vItujmoH. 

I cause my food to be hot.

The prefix indicated subject is the one doing the causing. The
prefix indicated object is the one doing the action.

The transitive variation goes like this:

targhwIjvaD SojwIj vISopmoH.

I cause my targ to eat my food.

Still, the prefix indicated subject is the one doing the
causing, but now the object is the object of the action. The
doer of the action becomes the indirect object, indicated by
{-vaD}.

>    Then, of course, we would have to deal with the problem of how this
> sentence would be written, if Klaa specifically mentioned the computer.
> That is, how is {-moH} used with verbs with transitive meanings (if at
> all), and where in the sentence would all of the nouns go? i.e., would
> Klaa's sentence be {HIv HevaD De'wI' yIchoHmoH} [Cause the computer to
> alter it for the attack course], 

No. It would instead be:

De'wI'vaD HIv He yIchoHmoH.

Apparently, the subject of the action has always been the
indirect object of the verb with {-moH}, but since all our
examples showed intransitive verb stems, it was more convenient
to allow the indirect object to slide into the object position.

This is the same kind of perspective shift I had to go through
when I first saw {-lu'} used with an intransitive verb. There's
a certain degree to which you have to just accept it. This is
the way Klingon handles transitive verbs with {-moH}.
Fortunately, most instances of {-moH} will be with intransitive
verbs. This is a somewhat awkward grammar on transitive ones.

> using {HIv He} as the indefinite
> object, since the direct object slot is already taken up by {De'wI'}? Do
> we have any other canonical uses of {-moH} on transitive verbs or the
> verb {choH}?

Yes. It is one of the Skybox cards. I believe it is the one
about Worf's sash.

charghwI'


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