tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Oct 07 01:29:50 1997

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Re: KLBC: Bermuda



At 06:49 97-10-04 -0700, DaQ'qan wrote:

I've combined the three Bermuda messages into one.  It's interesting to see
your thought processes here.  Will help me help you.  I apologize for the
delay in answering, Ferengi attacked a diplomatic vessel on a game I play
and I'm on the yejquv, so there's been lots of stuff to do there. :)

} In looking back to what I did last night it was done from memory and in a
}rush I'd like to try a had at correcting my own mistakes.... that is if
}nobody objects.....
}>
}>
}> Bermudian cha'DIch!!!!       -     a second Bermudian!!!!

You have correctly said "a second Bermudian." Just as in your English
translation, you don't *have* a verb here.  You could have said
{*Bermuda*ngan cha'DIch} to use the Klingon -ngan for inhabitant of, but
"Bermudian" works fine.  To make a complete sentence out of this you could
say "You are a second Bermudian" {"Bermudian* cha'DIch SoH}.

}            I din't really see anything wrong here or could I have put wa'
}there to note the 'a second' part? or would it have been more proper with
}<<wa' Bermudian 'ach vItaHbe'>> would I put -lu' on the verb as I'm not sure
}of who they are? I'm trying to convey the idea of another Bermudian.....

I don't know what you're getting at with that suggestion. It comes out kind
of as "One Bermudian but I do not continued it."  With {-lu} "... I am not
continued." Stick ith your first idea.

}>SoH qalegh 'e' vIbel!!!!!      -     I'm pleased to see you!!!!!!
}            I thought this was straight forward but I could be
}mistaken........
}>>SoH qalegh 'e' vIbel!!!!!      -     I'm pleased to see you!!!!!!
}            just notice the really bad error there of <<vIbel>> that should
}be <<mubel>> sorry....

{SoH qalegh} is quite right.  Do you know the {SoH} is optional?  It kind of
emphasizes the "you" in the sentence when you use it, "I'm happy to see
YOU." (See TKD 5.1) 

There is then a bit of a problem indicating how {SoH qalegh} relates to you
being pleased.  I see exactly how you got the sentence, and if it were {SoH
qalegh 'e' vISov} it would be perfect, but "I am pleased that I see you"
isn't the same grammar as "I know that I see you."  The English word "that"
does a lot of jobs.  Klingon {'e'} does just one.

The word {'e'} is used with a construction called "sentence as object."  And
that is exactly what you need to have in order to use it: a sentence that is
the object of another verb.  The action of the verb "be pleased" doesn't act
on anything, doesn't have an object.  You aren't pleased <something>, you're
just pleased. Therefore 1) you need the "no object" verb prefix, making
{jIbel} and 2) {jIbel} can't be the second verb in a sentence as object
construction.

As for your suggestion of {mu-}, the second verb in a sentence-as-object
always has a third person singular object prefix, because {'e'} is its object.

So how *are* the two parts related?  Cause and effect.  The way you show
this in Klingon is to put the suffix {-mo'} on the cause.

{SoH qaleghmo' jIbel} "I am pleased because I see you."

}>Bermudian jIH!!!                       -     I'm Bermudian!!!!!
}            I figure I could have made this <<Bermudian jIH je>>   - I am
}Bermudian also.... just to make it more colorful but I wasn't sure in my
}rush last night if <<je>> at the end of a sentence was context as also......
}(didn't have my dictionary)  

bIlugh. And the {je} probably works, too.  More specifically, je after a
verb means "also" and as the pronoun in a sentence like this one is acting
as a verb, then this works.  We all *say* it anyway.

}>maqIHnIS SoH jIH je'!!!!      -     you and I must meet!
}                I cringed at the error at the end of this when I read it
}this morning..... drop the ' right guys.... yeah yeah I know...... silly me
}I don't know what I was thinking there

Hey, good thing you caught that. I missed it in the flurry of exclamation
points.  It's easy to mispronounce {je} as {je'} too.

}>De' tlha' 'e' yIqaw......           -     remember the following
}information

Still not quite the right place to use {'e'}.  Your sentence says "Rememeber
that information follows."  Or more literally.  "Information follows.
Remember that."  You're asking the person to remember not the information
itself, but what it does.

I think you'd have no problem forming the sentence {De' yIqaw}. Now you want
to describe the information.

}Now here I was thinking perhaps I should have made this <<De'
}tlha'taH 'e' yIqaw>> after all it will always be following it right?? or am
}I wrong? could I have dropped the <<'e'>> and used <<tlha'taH>> as an
}adjective?

No.  You do need to drop the {'e'}, but {tlha'} is not a verb expressing a
state or quality, and the type 7 suffix {-taH} can't be used on a verb
acting adjectivally, anyway.

Think of the sentence as "Remember the information which follows."   You'll
find a type nine verb suffix {-bogh} that does exactly this job. Read about
it in section 6.2.3 and tell me what you get.

}>jabbI'ID HIghItlh vIneH       -    I want you to write me email
}            Short, sweet, and very tlhIngan I thought..... I remember what
}Lisa and the others tought me on the MUSH about being direct and I hope this
}it a good example...

First some vocabulary, something not clear from TKD. {ghItlh} means "mark,
write down," referring to the physical act of making marks on paper, stone
tablets, or (we hope) your computer screen, by typing.  Its object, if it
has one, is the thing scratched out.  {pIqaD vIghItlh} "I inscribe Klingon
characters."  HIghItlh might mean "write on me" or it might mean "draw my
picture" or it could be nonsensical, I'm not sure.  It doesn't mean "write
to me."  A data transmission is not marked to someone, it's transmitted,
qar'a'? {jabbI'ID HIlI'} works for "Send me e-mail" (or "upload it to me" or
"ftp it over here" or anything else ordering data to be transmitted to you.

But then you weren't quite direct enough.  Decide whether you want to inform
the person that you want to be sent e-mail, or whether you simply want to
order ghaH to send it.  You can't do both at once, it's the equivalent of "I
want send me e-mail."

jabbI'ID cholI' vIneH  - I want you to send me e-mail
jabbI'ID HIlI' - Send me e-mail!

}DaQ'qan

A note about your name: if you intend this to mean "old ponytail" the {'} is
incorrect.  You are welcome to name yourself anything you like, just
understand that the letter {'} is not a syllable separator.  {DaQ'qan} is
like {DaQvqan} a not terribly pronouncible combination of two words and a
mysterious intervening consonant.

}qIb lenglI' tlhIngan Qup

ghorgh chegh?

Qov     [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian                 



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