tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Nov 25 18:12:50 1997
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Re: (KLBC) vIqaDmo' Qov QInvam vIqon
- From: "Robyn Stewart" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: (KLBC) vIqaDmo' Qov QInvam vIqon
- Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:12:17 PST
- Organization: NLK Consultants, Inc.
- Priority: normal
HomDoq wrote
>I said, obviously too vaguely:
>> > so, basically, you're saying that for {-moH}/{-lu'} there's an
>> > order of precedence when you analyze <verb>moHlu' in that you
>> > ALWAYS apply the {-moH} before the {-lu'}, right?
>>
>Qov didn't understand what I meant (I think) so I try again:
>
>It looks to me that in <verb>moHlu' the "indefinite subject"
>has to be the subject of causation and never that of the root verb
>(that's what I would get if I applied lu' to the verb first and THEN
>said that someone [specific] caused someone [indefinite] to <verb>)
Ah, there. Look what you said: "if I applied lu' to the verb first
and THEN said that someone [specific] caused ..." You can stop right
there. Once you have applied {-lu'} to the verb, the *subject* of
the verb is indefinite. You can't add in a specific subject at a
later date. You can't divert the inspecificity to the object, the
indirect object or anything else. If you want to be inspecific with
objects, use {vay'} or {nuv vIngu'qangbe'bogh} or leave it unstated.
> > jIbel. Hol veHmeyvaD ghoHtaHvIS po'wI'pu' Hol botlh
> >ghojlI'chugh latlhpu' vaj lo'laH wanI'.
>
> If, while experts argue about(?) the limits(?) of The Language ;),
> others can learn the core(?) of The Language, then the event (= the
> aforementioned arguing?) is useful.
>
> is that close?
Close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades.
The only hitch is that I said {ghojlI'chugh} not {ghojlaHchugh} --
"others progress in learning" not "others can learn." Otherwise --
spot on.
For my part, {Hol veHmeyvaD} might not be the right way to say it.
Perhaps the topic of the argument is the direct object of {ghoH}.
Maybe {Hol veHmeymo'} or {Hol veHmey DIyajmeH}.
> > > > veS tIvbe'law'taH roghvaH
> > > veS tIvbe'lu'law'taHchugh, nuch Dalu'!
> >
> > HeghlI'mo' ghupu' 'IQ chaH.
> >
> ghu HoHbogh nuv'e' vIquvmoHlaHbe'.
> SuvwI' neH HoH SuvwI''e' luquvmoHlu'.
{SuvwI' neH HoHbogh SuvwI''e' ...} ?
> Heghchugh ghu, veS Qojbe'lu'!
ghupu' HoHbe' SuvwI'pu'. ropmo' HeghlI' ghupu'.
SuvnIStaHvIS chonwI'pu', gheD HoHbe'taH.
SuvnIStaHvIS wIjwI'pu', Satlh lulonpu'.
SuvwI'pu' rIQ buSba'mo' Qelpu'
tI' Qaw'pu'mo' QojwI'pu', tI' SoplaHbe' wIjwI'pu' Ha'DIbaHmey.
qubchoHlI' Soj.
SuvnIStaHvIS vav SoS je puqpu' QorghlaHchu'be'.
lommeymo' ngImchoH bIQ Hal.
veSvaD jo lo'lu'.
qaStaHvIS veS bechbej roghvaH.
- Qov