tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Nov 23 10:50:57 1997

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Re: KLBC: Mole's tale

On Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:14:39 -0800 (PST) Alan Anderson 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> ja' Scott Murphy:
> >Why Mole Lives Underground, a Cherokee tale
> 
> Now that Qov, our esteemed Beginners' Grammarian, has responded to your
> story, I'd like to make some comments too.
> 
> >parbogh be' parHa' loD.
> 
> The first sentence is a little hard to understand at first glance.  The
> {parbogh be'} "woman who dislikes" doesn't obviously refer to her not
> liking the man.  When this idea is stated in English, the word "man" is
> near the beginning of the sentence, and a later clause can refer to it
> obliquely.  But in Klingon, {loD} comes at the end, and the reader has
> to wait until finishing the entire sentence before realizing that there
> is a blank spot at the beginning that can be filled in.

Very good point.
 
> While Klingon word order is in general the reverse of English, sentences
> are still read from left to right.  Someone who translates before trying
> to understand might not notice the problem, but those reading the Klingon
> directly will have a harder time understanding it.
> 
> I would have used two sentences to express this:
> {be' parHa' loD, 'ach loD par be'}

Or she could have kept her original sentence and just said:

loD parbogh be'e' parHa' loDvam.

Okrand tells us that is it fine to repeat nouns in sentences 
like this. Klingon does not consider this to be redundant. And 
if you want to leave out a noun so it is suggested by the 
prefix, I highly recommend that you state the first instance and 
consider dropping subsequent repetitions. That's what you are 
doing in English when you say, "The man likes the woman who 
dislikes him." It is a sure sign that you are encoding rather 
than translating when you then leave the only reference to the 
noun at the end. It should be:

loD parbogh be''e' parHa'.

not:

parbogh be''e' parHa' loD.

See? You don't want to just take the English and translate it 
into Klingon verbatum, following the rules. You also want to 
look at the finished Klingon to tell if it can be easily 
understood. The important task is not getting English to 
Klingon. The important task is building a Klingon sentence that 
can be understood.
 
> The rest of your story shows that you have a good understanding of the
> grammar and some skill at translating words.  I think you'll come to have
> an appreciation for the kinds of problems I pointed out in your first two
> sentences after you've read more, which I hope you do.

Sage advice.

> -- ghunchu'wI'

charghwI'

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