tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 17 20:36:44 1997
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Re: where do verb suffixes go in comparative clauses?
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: where do verb suffixes go in comparative clauses?
- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:38:33 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- Priority: NORMAL
On Thu, 13 Nov 1997 03:29:02 -0800 (PST) "Anthony.Appleyard"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Anthony.Appleyard wrote:-
> > "Korax is fatter than Koloth" is {qoreQ pI' law' qolotlh pI' puS}, as is
> > well known. But what if the sentence needs a verb-suffix?
> > "Korax seems to be fatter than Koloth" seems to be {qoreQ pI' law' qolotlh
> > pI' puS} plus a {-law'} = "apparently" suffix with nowhere obvious to go.
> > ...
> Someone accepted {qoreQ pI'law' law' qolotlh pI'law' puS} or similar,
I considered this to be likely acceptable.
> but in
> "In my herd, kill and clean the male targh which is fattest" rejected a
> relative clause e.g. {... targh'e' pI'bogh law' Hoch pI'bogh puS ...} or {...
> targh'e' pI' law'bogh Hoch pI' puSbogh ...}, as "-bogh changes the whole
> aspect of the verb, which -law' does not".
Well, "aspect" is a confusing word to use here. Comparatives use
a separate grammar from any other Klingon sentence. You cannot
modify that grammar. This is not negotiable.
A Q law' B Q puS.
A and B are nouns being compared. Q is a verb of quality. {pI'}
is a verb of quality. "Be fat". {pI'law'} could also be
considered to be a verb of quality. "Appear to be fat".
{pI'bogh} is not a verb of quality. "Which is fat".
You want to place a suffix on the Q verb which indicates the
verb's function in some larger context, but you simply cannot do
that. The Q verb must function as a verb of quality within the
comparative sentence. The comparative falls apart when you
ignore this fundamental rule relating to comparatives.
> But I do not see that -bogh on the verb changes anything's aspect WITHIN the
> clause: it merely says that the whole clause can be treated as a noun, namely
> an equivalent of whichever noun inside the clause is marked with -'e'.
Nope. {-bogh} destroys the grammar of the comparative
construction.
> And: If this is accepted, is the suffix in the second half of the comparison
> necessary?
The Japanese would answer "mu". Your question is asked in such a
way that it cannot be answered accurately. This construction
will not be accepted, and so suppositions about the need for the
suffix in the second half of the construction are rhetorical.
> {beq'e' pI' law'bogh qolotlh pI' puS} the crewman who is fatter than Koloth
This is definitely not grammatical.
> {qolotlh pI' law' beq'e' pI' puSbogh} the crewman who Koloth is fatter than
This is definitely not grammatical.
Just use two sentences. Make one a comparative. In the other
one, use {beqvam}.
charghwI'