tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Nov 09 12:35:21 1997

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Re: ST:EXP Transmission

charghwI'vo':

Let's please not assume this is canon before we get some sort of 
confirmation. There is a lot of really weird stuff here, and we 
have in the past gotten all worked up over a translation a 
couple people were really sure was done by Okrand only to have 
one of our own members sheepishly confess that he had done the 
translation himself, making more than a few significant errors 
and presumptive leaps into new grammatical constructions.

If Okrand wrote this, I will wince and accept it, but it does 
not look like Okrand to me.

On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 13:35:41 -0800 (PST) Klingon Ambassador 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Greetings.
> 
> I am forwarding to this list a transcript of a communiqu� sent by the 
> people of the Las Vegas Hilton's Star Trek: The Experience (tm).  They 
> have sent this to all Trek enthusiasts who registered for email updates.  
> The text appears in both Federation Standard (English) and tlhIngan Hol 
> (Klingon).  The communiqu� transcript follows:
> 
> /\/\/\/\/\/\BEGIN TRANSCRIPT/\/\/\/\/\/\
> 
> > INCOMING KLINGON TRANSMISSION
> 
> **** tlhIngan De' ****
> 
> tera' poH jaj wa', jar wa', jaj loSDIch, DIS wa'-Hut-Hut-chorgh:

I don't think Okrand has made any translations for days of the 
week. I'd be very surprised if he began with something as 
confusing as {jaj wa', jar wa', jaj loSDIch} for "Sunday, 
January 4th". I would have expected him to drop the reference to 
"Sunday" altogether, since it is a confusing and redundant 
reference to the same date in a different reference frame with 
no explanation for the days-of-the-week reference. The 
hyphenation of the date digits is also... unique.

> HovpoHvetlh latlh nab yIHutlh.

My, what an unusual use of {Hutlh}.
 
> laS veghaS HIltonDaq Hov leng: yIjeSchu' qaSchoHmo', bIlopqu'meH HIlton
> yIghoS.

I'm surprised Okrand would have written this addressing second 
person singular instead of plural. I would expect a less 
experienced writer to do this, however. If this is canon, I want 
to know about it, since I very much prefer {qaSchoHmo' 
yIjeSchu'} over {yIjeSchu' qaSchoHmo'}. We have no other 
examples so far of {-mo'} being used in a clause following the 
main clause and TKD does not address whether this is acceptable 
or not. We know that {-mo'} on a noun must preceed the main 
clause and we know that the verb suffix is closely related to 
the noun suffix.
 
> tera' vatlh DIS poH cha'maH loS bIyIn jeSlaHpa' Hoch.

How interesting. Perverse, even. The concept of a changing time 
reference like this is difficult to do in Klingon, but this 
seems like a VERY strange way to accomplish it. I'd have done 
something more like:

SujeSDI' tera' vatlhDIS poH cha'maH loS qo'Hey boSuch.

I think that would have been much easier to understand and more 
accurate to what is actually happening.
 
> DIvI' 'ejDo' 'entepray'Daq Dajollu'.
> 
> loghDaq lupDujHom qoDDaq bIlengtaHvIS, nIbuQbogh novpu' DaSuv.

Interesting. While you travel in space in the interior of a 
shuttlecraft... Would one expect to travel in the EXterior of a 
shuttlecraft? I would expect it to be enough to say 
{lupDujHomDaq}. {lupDujHom qoDDaq} is unusual phrasing for 
Okrand. Also, since shuttlecrafts usually travel through space, 
{loghDaq lupDujHom qoDDaq bIlengtaHvIS} seems exceptionally 
wordy. I'd have written {lupDujHom yIlIgh 'ej jaghmey tISuv!}
 
> quwargh tach Qe' je qoDDaq Hov leng Soj DatIv.

Note that {uw} is one of those letter combinations that never 
happens in Klingon as the end of a syllable. That means that the 
first syllable in this translitteration of Quark's name is 
{qu-}, an open syllable. To show how unusual this is, I just did 
a string search of my entire dictionary and other canon and 
found two instances of the prefixed verb {luwuqmeH}. I don't 
think Okrand wrote this. It is not a horrendous transliteration, 
but I'd have a greater expectation of there to be a glottal stop 
instead of an open first syllable.

It is also interesting that the English imperative was 
translated into this declarative sentence, while the word {qoD} 
was once again, unnecessarily included. Second person singular 
continues to be the rage here.

> jolbogh ghom wa'DIch DamuvlaHmeH De' DaneHchugh, Se'vam yIjIHtaH.

Interesting that earlier, the person beamed was the object of 
{jollu'}, while now they subject of {jolbogh}. If Okrand wrote 
this, he was sloppy.

> **** STARFLEET TRANSLATION ****
> 
> Save this Stardate: Sunday, January 4, 1998
> 
> Come Celebrate the Grand Opening of Star Trek: The Experience(tm) at the 
> Las Vegas Hilton.
> 
> > Be the First to Journey to the 24th Century
> 
> > Get Beamed Aboard the USS Enterprise
> 
> > Battle Menacing Aliens in a Shuttlecraft Journey Through Space
> 
> > Enjoy Star Trek Themed Food and Drink at Quark's Bar and Restaurant
> 
> Stay tuned for information on how you can be among the first to beam 
> aboard!
> 
> > END TRANSMISSION
> 
> www.startrekexp.com sends out regular updates and announcements about 
> Star Trek: The Experience.
> 
> /\/\/\/\/\/\END TRANSCRIPT/\/\/\/\/\/\
> 
> Here are some of my notes and thoughts on this:
> 
> laS veghaS = Las Vegas
> quwargh = Quark
> qoD = ??? / qoDDaq = ??? 

It means "inside, interior".

> (BTW, I don't have KGT yet, do these appear in KGT?)

Only {qoD}.
 
> I did not understand the Klingon beginning at first, but after comparing 
> it to the English and consulting TKD, I got it; but I don't think I like 
> it.  Is that the correct way to refer to a year? 
> <wa'-Hut-Hut-chorgh> instead of 
> <wa'SaD Hutvatlh HutmaH chorgh>?

I certainly don't think the hyphens are normal and I'm not 
certain we've seen this kind of year given in canon. We've had 
references to centuries, but not specific years.

> All nit-picking aside, I enjoyed receiving this communiqu� as a Star 
> Trek fan and as an enthusiast of tlhIngan Hol.  I think the inclusion of 
> Klingon text in this newsletter update honors the Klingons fans and 
> linguists, and shows that the warrior's tongue is alive and growing.

Fine, but please don't presume it is canon.
 
> Klingon Ambassador,
> *Dawut*
> [email protected]

pItlh.

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