tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 31 08:00:31 1997

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RE: KLBC: Practicing...

jatlh mIqIraH:

> > For a couple, or a few, you can use {puS}.
> 
> I debated for a long time about this one.  I ultimately decided to just
> use the English.  There's not really a reason, but to me "a couple"
> seems a little more slang and informal that "a few."

Oh?  How so?

> Doesn't really
> affect the sentence, and in the interest of speaking Klingon {puS}
> probably would have worked fine, anyway!

Since the interest here *is* speaking Klingon, you should have used {puS}.  
The point is not to translate word-for-word, but to *mean* exactly the same 
thing in both languages, regardless of which words are chosen.

> > Finally, there's a Klingon proverb which says almost this same thing (TKW
> > 185):
> > 
> > pIpyuS pach DaSop DaneHchugh pIpyuS puS DaghornIS.
> > If you want to eat pipius claw, you'll have to break a few pipiuses.
> 
> Having read TKW three or four times, I was aware of this proverb, but
> there is actually a small story as to why I used the other.  When I
> translated your initial message, I immediately had a flashback to the
> first Batman movie, where The Joker is in Vicki Vale's apartment.  His
> girlfriend had just committed suicide, and he responded by saying, "You
> can't make an omelet without breaking a couple of eggs."  I was going to
> write, "As The Joker said in Batman,...," but decided not to mess with
> that sort of a quotation at my early satge of learning.  So, I decided
> to just translate the line itself with a general "they" as the speakers.

There's no reason why this should be more difficult.  {jatlh *Joker* . . .}  
Quoting the Joker is fine, but I'll quote a TKW proverb any chance I get.  I 
get the impression that Klingons do.

> > But yours is:
> > 
> > "Omlet" DachenmoHlaHbe' "egg"-mey puS Daghorbe'chugh jatlhlu'.
> > 
> > Better yet:
> > 
> > "Omlet" DavutlaHbe' "egg"-mey puS Daghorbe'chugh jatlhlu'.
> 
> Well, cook doesn't quite carry the exact connotation I was getting at,
> and I was trying to translate the original as closely as possible.

Really?  I'd say that "cook" is closer to the correct connotation than "make" 
is, and much better than "cause to take form."  Don't get hung up with the 
English words; our purpose is to communicate accurately, not translate 
word-for-word.

> > You could also put {jatlhlu'} first:
> > 
> > jatlhlu' "omlet" DavutlaHbe' "egg"-mey puS Daghorbe'chugh.
> 
> Yeah.  I was simply using the OBJECT-VERB-SUBJECT construction and
> assumed that the quote was the objest, thus I placed it first.  I do
> understand how it wouldn't matter in this situation.
>  
> > maj.  'oy'be'lu'chugh Qapbe'lu'.
> 
> chay' Dajatlh "As The Joker said,"?

If we are to assume that the quotation is not the object, then you have the 
wrong prefix on {jatlh} in this sentence.  Say the sentence without the quote, 
then just simply stick it on somewhere:

chay' bIjatlh?

chay' bIjatlh "As the Joker said"?
or
"As the Joker said" chay' bIjatlh?

> chaq nap tlhInganpu'.
> <<jatlh "Joker">> neH?
> "As the Joker said" lujatlhbe', qar'a'?

Again, write this without the quotation as the object, then just add it on:

jatlhbe' qar'a'?

"As the Joker said" jatlhbe' qar'a'?
or
jatlhbe' qar'a' "As the Joker said"?

Remember, not everyone agrees that this is the correct way to use verbs of 
saying.  There are some who believe that the quotation *is* the object.  I 
disagree, but I cannot tell you that you are definitely wrong.

> Note: I am afraid that these lines work better in hindsight, and might
> not convey my thoguht accurately.  What I was originally trying to say
> was, "How would you say 'As the Joker said?'  Perhaps the Klingons are
> simpler than that.  They might only say 'The Joker speaks?'  They
> wouldn't say 'As the Joker said' at all, would they?"  Now I know I
> didn't translate exactly, but I couldn't quite recast these lines into
> sensible Klingon.  What do you think?

They came out well.  Don't try to mimic English, just speak clearly in 
Klingon.

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97247.3

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