tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 17 18:43:33 1997

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RE: KLBC: lIy

On Monday, March 17, 1997 5:32 AM, [email protected] on behalf of Irmgard 
Pohrer wrote:

> wa'Hu' jIDo'pu'be' - chal botpu' 'engmey lang. 
> I wasn't lucky yesterday - thin clouds blocked the sky (actually it 
> was more of a haze).

You seem to be trying to use {-pu'} as past tense.  It's not.  See the FAQ, 
http://www.thomtech.com/~dspeers/klingon/faq.htm#3.1

If I want to say, "I was not lucky yesterday," I simply say {wa'Hu' jIDo'Ha'} 
or {wa'Hu' jIDo'be'}.  (I'll stick with {Do'Ha'} for now.)

If I say {wa'Hu' jIDo'Ha'pu'}, it means "As of yesterday, I had already been 
unlucky."  Don't use {-pu'} or {-ta'} unless the action is complete as of the 
time context.

> lIy lurghDaq 'oH *Olympic stadium*'e'.
> In the direction of the comet is the Olympic stadium.

This is more like "As for the Olympic stadium, it is at the comet's 
direction."  This idea is a little more complex to indicate in Klingon than in 
English, I think, but it can be done.

naDevvo' rap lIy lurgh, "Olympic Stadium" lurgh je.
>From here, the direction of the comet and the direction of the Olympic Stadium 
are the same.

naDevvo' lIy ghoSlu'meH "Olympic Stadium" juSlu'.
In order to approach the comet from here, one must pass the Olympic Stadium.

> Pa' DIr moQHom puppu' cha'maH cha' loDpu' 'ej bejpu' ghotpu' law'
> There twenty-two men kicked a ball (eh, small skin sphere :-) ) and many 
> people watched.

Don't capitalize the beginning of a sentence, unless it's written as a capital 
letter in Klingon!

As for {DIr moQHom}, is as good as any other phrase I've seen.

Now, see the {-pu'} suffixes there (on the verbs)?  You say {DIr moQHom pupqu' 
cha'maH cha' loDpu'}.  (That should be {lupuppu'}, since the subject is plural 
and the object is singular, and they're both third-person.)  Now that you know 
that the {-pu} means aspect and not tense, you can see that what you wrote 
meant that 22 men had already kicked a ball, and that that action was done.  
Now, if that's what you MEANT, then that's fine!  If you meant that this was 
happening while you were there, then you can't use the {-pu'}.  Get it?  And 
since your next sentence indicates that they were playing while you were 
looking for the comet, they weren't already finished playing the game.  The 
{-pu'}s must go.

> chaHvaD 'utpu' wov 'ach muSujpu' wov.
> Light was necessary for them but the light disturbed me.

Whether {wov} means "light" as a noun is a matter of controversy, and you can 
usually get by without it.  And if you remove the {-pu'}s here as well, the 
sentence is otherwise fine.

Here's one way to say this without using {wov} as a noun:

leghmeH chaH, wovnIS yotlh.  vaj vISujlu'.
The field needed to be bright in order for them to see.  Thus, I was 
disturbed.

Since we know that the light is the thing disturbing you, we don't need to 
worry about specifying it again.  If you REALLY needed to, you could work in 
{yotlh wov} "bright field."

> wovmo' 'engmeymo' joq lIy vIleghlaHpu'be'. Qu'vatlh!
> Because of the light or because of the clouds I couldn't see the 
> comet. #$%@!

Take away extraneous {-pu'}s.  I will show you another sentence which does not 
rely on {wov} as a noun.

wovmo' yotlh qoj chal lubotmo' 'engmey lIy vIleghlaHbe'.
Because the field was bright and/or because the clouds blocked the sky, I 
couldn't see the comet.

> *already* *ticket*meywIj vIje'pu'. jIboHbej!
> I've already bought my tickets. I'm definitely impatient!

Now THIS is exactly what {-pu'} and {-ta'} are for!  You want to indicate that 
the act of buying your tickets is complete as of now.  And this time, you want 
to indicate that you set out to buy tickets intentionally.

*tickey*-meywIj vIje'ta'.
I have already bought my tickets.
I bought my tickets, and the action is completed intentionally.

Heh . . . anyone care for {'ellaHghach nav} for "ticket"?  Or {DIlta'ghach 
nav}?  I thought not.  :)

> > Again, I urge you to avoid Adams until you're ready, and then give
> > it to the list in general, not just KLBC.
> 
> lu'! mu'tlheghmeywIj vIghItlh 'e' mutlhuch. 'ach Qu' vItIv! 
> I will! It exhausts me to write my own sentences. But I enjoy the task!

When you use {'e'} or {net}, the prefix of the second verb must be one which 
indicates  third-person singular object.  {mu-} is not one of those.  You're 
using the "it."  What exactly is "it" in the sentence "It exhausts me"?  "It" 
refers to the next part of the sentence: "that I write my own sentences."  But 
"it" is the subject!  In Klingon, we can't use subject-as-object.  You have to 
recast.

Also, I don't know if {tlhuch} means that kind of exhaust.  Maybe it does, but 
let's stick to something a little more sure.

mu'tlheghmeywIj vIghItlhmo' jIDoy'chu'.
Because I write my sentences, I am absolutely completely tired.

In Klingon, if one is "composing" something, one uses the verb {qon}, because 
for Klingons the created words are already out there, just waiting to be 
recorded.  If you use {ghItlh}, it simply means the act of writing something 
to some sort of medium (it doesn't matter what).  Therefore, you might prefer:

mu'tlheghmeywIj vIqonmo' jIDoy'chu'
Because I "compose" [record] my sentences, I am completely tired.

> Just one thing: Don't panic! would be yIlImQo', right?

HIja'.

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97210.4

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