tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Mar 07 15:30:42 1997

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RE: KLBC: cholugh, please

jatlh Edy Fonseca:

> 	Other ridiculous problem here:  I want to say, "Call me Edy"

No, it's a good question!  Check out the FAQ, 
http://www.thomtech.com/~dspeers/klingon/faq.htm#2.1
I shall add some updated information to this after I go over what you have 
done below.

> Edy chopong    - You call me Edy

This is a statement of fact, not a command.  If I'm not already calling you 
"Edy," then the statement will be untrue.

> Edy choponglaH - You can call me Edy

This is a statement about how I am *able* to call you Edy.  I don't think that 
{-laH} is supposed to be used to suggest a course of action.  It indicates 
that you are able to do something, not that I permit you to do something.

> Edy qapongmoH  - I cause you to call me Edy

No, this is more like "I cause you to name Edy."  But then again, it may not 
say that.  What's the object?  Are there more than one?  Is {qa-} describing 
the indirect object?  This is too twisted, and it doesn't have the full 
meaning.

Here's the update: in SkyBox card S27, we get

roD 'oHvaD juHqo' ponglu' neH.

This is translated with "Qo'noS [it] is usually referred to as simply 'The 
Homeworld.'"  A more literal translation would be "One usually merely calls it 
'The Homeworld.'"  See how it works?  The object being named is the indirect 
object with {-vaD}, and the name itself is the object of {pong}.

Following this format, we'd get,

jIHvaD "Edy" yIpong
Call me Edy.

Literally, it'd be, "Name Edy.  And apply that naming to me."

Now, if we can do what I call "indirect object contractions," using the verb 
prefix to indicate the indirect object and not using {-vaD}, then this could 
become

"Edy" HIpong.
Call me Edy.

> > > 1. In my question I have to write cholugh soH, or it is correct?
> > {cholugh SoH} means "You be correct me."  This is not what you mean.  
> > You want to say, "Correct me."  This would be {HIlughmoH}.  First, the 
> > {HI-} makes it a  command.  Then, {-moH} shows that you are CAUSING me 
> > to be correct.  See TKD 4.2.4.
> 
>   lu'.  mu'ghom jIlaDtaH.

{mu'ghom vIlaDtaH}  Don't forget that you need the correct prefix!  {mu'ghom} 
is the object of {laD}.

> Hoch mupuqwI' (I'm reading the TKD. It is my 	
> 			         best friend)

{puq} is a noun, not a verb.  You cannot use verb prefixes on it.  "My best 
friend" is a little tricky.

"My friend" is {jupwI'} (though a case could be made to say {jupwIj} since 
you're talking about a book).  How can you indicate that this friend is closer 
to you than any other?  Well, you could say the whole thing out as an 
explanation:

jupwI' 'oH mu'ghomwI''e'.  jIHvaD 'oH potlh law' Hoch potlh puS.
My dictionary is my friend.  To me, it is the most important thing there is.

Or you could be a little more vague:

jupwI' potlhqu'
My very important friend.

There are other ways this might be said.

> > > 2. soH Iv' HISovmoH  = let me know who are you
> > This is starting to look like a sentence as object without its {'e'}, 
> > but it's more like a question-as-object.  We don't know if you can do 
> > that, and I stay far away from them.
> > Besides, why are you commanding such a thing?  You've got a question, 
> > so ask it.
> > 
> > SoH 'Iv?
> > (or {'Iv SoH})
> 
> 	It's easier ... I was thinking in other situation, but it has the 
> same meaning!

Precisely!  The idea is not to translate just sentences, but to translate the 
*concepts* those sentences contain.

Remember to spell {SoH} with a capital {S}.

> 	Sometimes the use of soH, jIH 'oH  are reduntand, right?  So, 
> there is any rule to use them?

See TKD pp. 61-62.  Generally, if the reader can understand what pronoun you 
mean without having to read it, you don't need it.

> 	One more sentence:
> 
> Scientist discovered the first sign in a meteor falled in a planet.

Ummm . . . what do you mean by this exactly?  The first sign of life?  In a 
meteor which has fallen to Earth?

> 	In this case there are 2 sentences:

majQa'!  Good that you recognized that!

> Scientist discovered the first sign - De' wa'DIch tu' tej 
> in a meteor fell in a planet - yuQ pum chunDab
> 
> Joining the 2 sentences I have	
>  
> De' wa'DIch tu' tej yuQ pum chunDab   or
> yuQ pum chunDab De' wa'DIch tu' tej   (?)
> 
> I would like to hear your comments in the construction of the phrase, 
> cause I didn't find any syntax marks and the position of the 2 sentences 
> cause me confusion.

Yeah, you don't quite have the right sentences for what I think you meant.  
This sentence becomes quite complicated, and I'm going to break it up a lot!  
I encourage you to make smaller sentences which say less, but which say more 
when you put them all together.

tera'Daq paw'pu' chunDab.  'oHDaq yInroH wa'DIch tu'lu'.
A meteor has collided with Earth.  In it one finds the first life signs.

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97182.7

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