tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jun 03 00:34:54 1997
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RE: KLBC: Words for assassin & blade
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: KLBC: Words for assassin & blade
- Date: Mon, 2 Jun 97 22:47:14 UT
[email protected] on behalf of Jim LeMaster wrote:
> > >> > Is there a specific word (for "Assassin
> > Um, what's with the English-Klingon one-to-one correspondence you're both
> > presuming here? Who ever promised there would BE a word (especially a
> > single word) for "assassin"?
(I never said there was. I simply said I didn't think it would be {batlhHa'
HoHwI'} or any permutation of it.)
> What IS an assassin anyway? You can't
> > translate what you don't understand.
> ********Which is the reason for the original request. SOMETHING in
> tlhIngan Hol should mean "assassin" if there is an object called an
> "assassin's blade/knife".
> Form follows function and language follows culture. There is a need to
> distinguish an assassin's knife from a warrior's knife, so there
> *should* be a way to express the difference.
Quite compelling, but not quite conclusive. See below.
> I do not think that
> "killer" (HoHwI') would be translated as Assassin. Killers are not
> always assassins, though assasssins are always killers. Assassin comes
> from Hashishem (sp?), a very special kind of killer from the 12th
> Century. Indian Thuggees were religious killers, but not assassins, for
> they preferred random acts of murder.
This does not yet answer the question: what *is* an assassin?
> > What's a good Klingon word for "assassin"? I'd go with "chotwI'" most of
> > the time, perhaps "HoHwI'" in some situations. If I had to say that the
> > murderer acted secretly and underhandedly, I would say so, straight out,
> > and not try to cram all that meaning into the noun phrase. Do you
honestly
> > want to have to say "But unbeknownst to Kruge, there was a
> > one-who-kills-from-shadows hiding in the shadows behind him. As he began
> > his speech, the one-who-kills-from-shadows aimed his pistol carefully and
> > fired, killing the noble captain. The one-who-kills-from-shadows leapt
> > from his hiding place and cried out, 'I am a half-breed, and Chester
Arthur
> > is now leader of the High Council!'"??? Wouldn't it make more sense to
say
> > "There was a murderer hiding in the shadows behind him..." and just leave
> > it as "murderer"?
>
> My only comment here is that IS what us new learners are told to do - be
> verbose and use many discriptive words where "simpler" constructs are
> repeatedly attacked as being vague or unintelligible.
Mark's exaggerating a wee bit too much here. You are right: beginners
*should* be more descriptive. However. Once you've gotten through the
description, you don't need to keep repeating it. Of course, this means that
you aren't creating a permanent phrase for the subject. It's useful only for
this context.
To redo the example above (assuming that you really, really meant that this
particular assassin killed by hiding in shadows and pouncing upon his
victims):
"But unbeknownst to Kruge, there was a
warrior who kills from shadows hiding in the shadows behind him. As he began
his speech, the warrior aimed his pistol carefully and
fired, killing the noble captain. The killer leapt
from his hiding place and cried out, 'I am a half-breed, and Chester Arthur
is now leader of the High Council!'"
I described the concept once, and it carried itself through the story.
> Once again, this is rather off from the original question "what is the
> tlhIngan Hol for the "assassin's knife."? However, I am not looking to
> mirror English, so much as mirror the concept. Culture and environment
> mold a people. "English/Caucasian" culture was/is war-like and as such
> has many words for killing and violence:
> killer (generic - one who kills something)
> murderer (one who kills another being outside the law)
> executioner (one who kills another being within the law)
> soldier (one who kills justifiably in time of war)
> war-criminal (one who kills unjustifiably in time of war)
Which one you are usually depends on who wins. qun qon charghwI'pu''e'.
> terrorist (one who kills randomly for politics)
> mercenary (one who fights/kills merely for money)
Not necessarily *only* for money.
> infanticide, patricide, matricide, regicide (justifiable killing of
> Regis
> Philbin {{:-))
Notably, you seem to have omitted the meaning of "assassin." Define *that*,
especially for a Klingon context, and we can talk about how you might go about
describing one.
> A war-like/warrior society should, I beleive, tend to define "killing"
> (a major goal of the martial training) and the types of killers.
What's the Klingon word for "warrior who kills traitors while wearing green
socks"? You *could* say {paSlogh SuD tuQtaHvIS SuvwI', maghwI'pu' HoH}, but
this is descriptive, not THE phrase to use. You wouldn't use this every time
you described him, just the first time.
--
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97420.8