tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 15 18:01:00 1997
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Re: Space Cadets
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>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:01:32 -0700 (PDT)
>From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
>
>[email protected] on behalf of Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
>> Krankor's
>> citation of "ghe''orDaq luSpet" for type-5-modified nouns modifying other
>> nouns is hard to argue with, but it has it *before* the modificand.
>
>ghe''orDaq luSpet 'oH DaqlIj'e'
>
>Krankor says this isn't
>
>ghe''orDaq [luSpet 'oH DaqlIj'e'],
>
>but I don't see why it can't be. If we can accept something like {reH DIvI'
>Duj vISuv vIneH}, where the {reH} seems to be way out of place, and for those
>who like charghwI''s previous suggestion that there's no difference in meaning
>between that and {DIvI' Duj vISuv reH vIneH}, then why can't this simply be
>seen as
>
>[Your location is a black hole] in the Netherworld
>
>instead of
>
>Your location is [a black hole in the Netherworld].
>
>Looks like they *mean* exactly the same thing, only one is definitely right
>and the other requires the assumption that Type 5'd noun-nouns are allowed.
>In either one, the outcome is that you're inside a black hole, and that black
>hole is in the Netherworld.
I don't see how this makes sense. If "ghe''orDaq" modifies the sentence,
then that means the "being" happens in ghe''or. I think Krankor himself
says that it would imply "in the netherworld, a black hole is your place.
(In the US, your place is Hoboken, and in Canada it's Nova Scotia)" What's
being said here? That the person's place is a black hole, and *that black
hole* is in the netherworld. I don't really understand your first
sentence, what it would mean.
I don't completely like type-5 nouns modifying nouns myself, and I'm not
100% convinced yet (due to garden-variety conservatism), but I find this
sentence pretty powerful evidence. (It's not even a toast or stock phrase,
but an insult, the one type of Klingon interaction we're given that really
seems to be inventive and not stock phrases).
~mark
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