tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Jul 10 11:32:24 1997
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Re: KLBC: Trainning the begginers
- From: "Robyn Stewart" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: Trainning the begginers
- Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:30:56 PST
- Organization: NLK Consultants, Inc.
- Priority: normal
I was going to follow up to the exploding Romulan posts, rather than
creating extra work for SuStel, but he didn't seem to mind. SuStel
said most of the things I intended to on this one, including majQa',
but I'm going to use it as a chance to rail at length about my
understanding of the perfective.
SuStel wrote
& [email protected] on behalf of 'elren HoD wrote:
&
& > 2. A traitor put a bomb on the ship
& > romuluSngan DujDaq jorwI'jan lanta' maghwI'
&
& Good one! Nice use of perfective aspect!
Yes. The bomb had been placed on the ship *before* the action being
considered. Remember that the point of perfective suffixes is not
that the action happened in the past, but that the action is complete
prior to the time considered in the sentence. A better English
translation of the Klingon would be "A traitor had put a bomb on the
ship."
& > 4. The rom commander dropped his tea on the contol panel
& > SeHlawDaq Dargh chaghta' romuluSngan la'
This sentence isn't incorrect. There could likely be a context where
it would make sense to translate it as simple past tense. But it
isn't past tense. Don't think of it that way. I know that as an
English speaker you are groping for a way to say that this action has
already happened, but you don't need it. My question could mean "Why
will the Romulan ship explode?" making the distinction between
<chagh> and <chaghta'> the difference between "will drop" and "will
have dropped." And as the perfective suffix you have chosen
represents a deliberate action, this could be a great sentence too.
Perhaps you have paid off the la' to drop the specially formulated
tea at 14h00 so at 14h30 you know the la' will have dropped the
tea, and the ship will explode. For the purpose of the exercise it
doesn't matter what tense the questions and answers are in, anymore
than it matters what sector the ship was in.
Consider <ghorgh tujchoHpu' bIQ?> from TKD (the phrasebook section).
It doesn't mean "when was the water hot?" it means "when will the
water be hot?" or more literally "when will the water have completed
changing to be hot." When I see the perfective, I think "completed
compared to when?"
PERFECTIVE IS NOT PAST TENSE. Tense in Klingon is indicated by
time markers.
wejHu' loS Dol DIleghpu'.
Three days ago we had seen four entities (i.e. they weren't all
necessarily seen four days ago, but at some point four days ago we
had seen, over some unknown number of preceding days, or maybe our
entire lifetimes, four entities.) Past perfective.
cha'Hu' wa' Dol wIlegh.
Two days ago we saw one entity. Simple past.
vaj DaHjaj po vagh Dol DIleghpu'.
Therefore this morning we had seen five entities. Past perfective.
DaH wa' Dol wIlegh.
Now we see one entity. Simple present.
DaH jav Dol DIleghpu'.
Now we have seen six entities. Present perfective.
wa'leS wa' Dol wIlegh.
Tomorrow we will see one entity. Simple future.
wa'leS Soch Dol DIleghpu'.
Tomorrow we will have seen seven entities. Future perfective.
cha'leS nunuQbogh Dolpu'vetlh DISangbej.
The day after tomorrow we will obliterate those annoying entities.
& Without your TKD?!? majQa'!
majQa', indeed. I had to pull out my wordlist to check Sang.
- Qov