tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Jul 06 18:31:20 1997
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Re: De''e' neHbogh charghwI'
- From: "Neal Schermerhorn" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: De''e' neHbogh charghwI'
- Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 01:32:45 UT
toH, jImIS! chu''a'? {{:0)
jIghItlh 'ej ghItlh SuStel:
>> Another example of how this could be used without a 'stated' object, as
>> SuStel
>> seemed to want:
>>
>> yaSvaD qaqIpmoH
>> I cause you to be hit by the officer.
>
>No! Throughout all of this discussion, remember that we're still using {-vaD}
>with its original meaning. {yaSvaD qaqIpmoH} means "I cause you to hit, and
>the beneficiary of the officer," or "I cause you to hit the officer."
>(Whether you're striking the officer or striking someone else for the benefit
>of the officer himself is not actually expressed in this sentence. Context
>would tell.)
lu' toH - mu'tlheghvam Dalaj'a'?
yaSvaD SoH qaqIpmoH
I cause the officer to hit you.
'ach DungDaq 'oH mu'tlhegh'e' Dalajbe''a'? qatlh? rurchuq. pImbogh wa' Doch
tu'lu', qar'a'? wa' mu' poQlaw' vIteq. DaH jiyajbe' 'e' vIyaj!
>> I find this interesting. So now we can say "the guard causes the prisoner
to
>> be cut with the knife."
>>
>> tajvaD qama' pe'moH 'avwI'
>
>No. {pe'} means "cut," not "be cut," so this sentence means "The guard causes
>the prisoner to cut (something) for the benefit of the knife," or "The guard
>causes the prisoner to cut the knife." There is NO "with" idea here.
ghobe', SuStel. mughwI' Soy' jIH, 'ach jIlughlaw'.
mu'tlhegh wa' DaghItlhta':
(*jIH* vIchelta')
wa'
>jIHvaD mIw DayajmoH [SoH]
>You make me understand the procedure.
Agent+-vaD Object Verb+-moH Subject
cha'
tajvaD qama' pe'moH 'avwI'
The guard makes the knife cut the prisoner.
Agent+-vaD Object Verb+-moH Subject
wej
yaSvaD SoH qaqIpmoH [jIH]
I cause the officer to hit you.
Agent+-vaD Object Verb+-moH Subject
chay' pIm? maghoH vIneHbe' 'ach maghoj vIneH. 'e' yIqaw.
>> vIyaj 'ej vIparHa', charghwI'. luyaj Hoch je 'e' vItul.
>
>By the way, {Hoch} is a noun with a plural meaning, but is treated
>grammatically as singular. Furthermore, {je} means "also" when it is
>following the verb, not the subject. This should be {yaj je Hoch 'e' vItul}.
HIja', SuStel. DaH bIlugh!
Qermaq