tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Jul 06 18:31:20 1997

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Re: De''e' neHbogh charghwI'



toH, jImIS! chu''a'? {{:0)

jIghItlh 'ej ghItlh SuStel:

>> Another example of how this could be used without a 'stated' object, as
>> SuStel 
>> seemed to want:
>> 
>> yaSvaD qaqIpmoH
>> I cause you to be hit by the officer.
>
>No! Throughout all of this discussion, remember that we're still using {-vaD} 

>with its original meaning. {yaSvaD qaqIpmoH} means "I cause you to hit, and 
>the beneficiary of the officer," or "I cause you to hit the officer." 
>(Whether you're striking the officer or striking someone else for the benefit 

>of the officer himself is not actually expressed in this sentence. Context 
>would tell.)

lu' toH - mu'tlheghvam Dalaj'a'?

yaSvaD SoH qaqIpmoH
I cause the officer to hit you.

'ach DungDaq 'oH mu'tlhegh'e' Dalajbe''a'? qatlh? rurchuq. pImbogh wa' Doch 
tu'lu', qar'a'? wa' mu' poQlaw' vIteq. DaH jiyajbe' 'e' vIyaj!

>> I find this interesting. So now we can say "the guard causes the prisoner 
to 
>> be cut with the knife."
>> 
>> tajvaD qama' pe'moH 'avwI'
>
>No. {pe'} means "cut," not "be cut," so this sentence means "The guard causes 

>the prisoner to cut (something) for the benefit of the knife," or "The guard 
>causes the prisoner to cut the knife." There is NO "with" idea here.

ghobe', SuStel. mughwI' Soy' jIH, 'ach jIlughlaw'. 

mu'tlhegh wa' DaghItlhta':
(*jIH* vIchelta')

wa'
>jIHvaD mIw DayajmoH [SoH] 
>You make me understand the procedure.
Agent+-vaD Object Verb+-moH Subject

cha'
tajvaD qama' pe'moH 'avwI'
The guard makes the knife cut the prisoner.
Agent+-vaD Object Verb+-moH Subject

wej
yaSvaD SoH qaqIpmoH [jIH]
I cause the officer to hit you.
Agent+-vaD Object Verb+-moH Subject

chay' pIm? maghoH vIneHbe' 'ach maghoj vIneH. 'e' yIqaw.

>> vIyaj 'ej vIparHa', charghwI'. luyaj Hoch je 'e' vItul.
>
>By the way, {Hoch} is a noun with a plural meaning, but is treated 
>grammatically as singular. Furthermore, {je} means "also" when it is 
>following the verb, not the subject. This should be {yaj je Hoch 'e' vItul}.

HIja', SuStel. DaH bIlugh!

Qermaq





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