tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 14 18:58:32 1997
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RE: chay'
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: chay'
- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 00:14:11 UT
January 14, 1997 3:36 AM EST, jatlh peHruS:
> In a message dated 97-01-13 18:58:31 EST, Sustel writes:
>
> << Here's another problem for you: although I don't think this is correct
> either,
> I see it more likely to be {'ar beQ ghew} than {chay' beQ ghew} for "How
> flat
> is the bug?" At least {'ar} is asking for a degree of something ("how
> much")?
> In Klingon, {chay' beQ ghew} is a perfectly grammatical question, whose
> answer might be {vIgho'}.
> >>
>
> SuStel, Please refer to TKD pp 69-70 Section 6.4. You obviously need to
read
> very carefully how {'ar} asks the measure of Nouns. {chay'}, {qatlh}, and
> {ghorgh} ask something about the action, i.e., the Verb. {nuq} and {'Iv}
fit
> into Object or Subject slots as Nouns. {nuqDaq} fits into the Adverb slot.
peHruS, please refer to my re-quoted text above, and compare that with the
topic of conversation. You obviously need to read very carefully how I was
indicating that {'ar} comes *closer* to the idea that we're talking about than
{chay'} does. I don't think *either* one is correct, though.
> I agree that Klingon is not a reconstruction of any Earth language, although
> it comes pertty close to a conglomeration of Navajo, Mayan, and Quechua.
I'm now going to restate something, just to make sure it's a little
over-emphasized: Klingon is NOT a conglomeration of Navajo, Mayan, and
Quechua. One *cannot* use these languages to make conclusions about Klingon.
Observations, certainly. ("Hey, look! Klingon and Navajo do exactly the same
thing in this case!") No more.
> OTOH, patterns of language-thought indicate there are relative similarities
> in various languages. We have seen some evident patterns even in Klingon,
And, of course, Okrand has specifically provided built-in violations of those
languages. The best example is that of color words (see HolQeD 5:2 p. 7). If
we've got one variation here, there may be others, which would caution one
from making sweeping judgements based on human language patterns.
> possibly because it really is a language devised on Earth, binding us to
> inherent patterns in our brains. A prevalent pattern in Earth languages,
> from the several I have delved into, nowhere near all that exist, is that
the
> word for "how" does a verb's action occur also asks "how" a stative verbs
> degree is measured.
I can just hear the Klingon linguists: "Interesting! All human languages seem
to use their word 'how' to ask the degree of a quality! That's very weird!
There's nothing like that in Klingon!"
> Finally, I resent your having been the first to reply. BG does not equate
to
> authority, particularly in the case of a post not containing KLBC and
> requesting discussion from the listserv members at large. jIHvaD
bIjangqa'pa'
> maja'chuq ghomvam jIH je 'e' vIchup
WHAT?!?!?? Hey, I'm as entitled to respond to a post as anyone else. I was
not intending to exert some fictitious BG authority on my response. I
answered your post. My job as BG is to help beginners, and I'm not forbidden
from reading and responding to non-KLBC posts. If I have something to say
concerning one of your posts, I'll say it. Why should I wait for someone else
to go first?
--
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97040.4