tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 04 05:30:37 1997
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
ghu' wotmey (Re: law'/puS)
- From: Ivan A Derzhanski <[email protected]>
- Subject: ghu' wotmey (Re: law'/puS)
- Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 15:27:46 -0800
- Organization: Institute for Mathematics and Computer Science
pabwI'pu' quvnISmoH net Sov, 'ach HolQeDna' ja'chuqlu'DI', Holtej 'Iw
jeD law' pabwI' 'Iw jeD puS.
ja' ghunchu'wI':
> Irene Gates (T'Lark) writes:
>> What exactly is a quality or condition?
> A "quality or condition" is something that just "is". Nothing really
> "happens" as part of a stative verb. Examples of stative verbs include
> {jeH} "be absent-minded", {poS} "be open", and {tuj} "be hot".
lugh. _Linguistics in Philosophy_ paqDajDaq chay' wanI'mey buv
_Zeno Vendler_ 'e' SaqawmoH:
* ghu' (state): _know_, _love_, _have_, _desire_.
* mIw (activity): _walk_, _run_, _write_, _drive a car_.
* ta' (accomplishment): _paint a picture_, _run a mile_,
_write a letter_, _draw a circle_.
* chav (achievement): _recognise_, _find_, _lose_, _die_.
HolQeDDaq buvmey latlh law' tu'lu' je, 'ach ghu' nuq 'e' Qoch pagh.
> You might have noticed a pattern -- they all seem to be translated
> with the English word "be" as part of their definition.
'utbe' ngoDvam. DIvI' Hol lo'lu'DI', *pIj* _be_ lungaS ghu' wotmey,
'ach *reH* lungaSnISbe'bej. va, yIqIm: pIj Doch rap lupongDI' cha'
mu'nawlogh (expressions), _be_ ngaS wa' mu'nawlogh, 'a ngaSbe' latlh,
for example _be ill_ _ail_ je, _be hungry_ _hunger_ (wot 'oHDI') je,
_be aware (of)_ (_be acquainted (with)_ joq) _know_ je, _be similar
(to)_ _resemble_ je, rut _be in abeyance_ _wait_ je. Dochmey rap
pongmo', ghu' luDanISba' cha' pagh ghap.
'ej rut _be_ ngaSlaH je ghu' Dabe'bogh wot mu'nawlogh'e', for example
_be sick_ (_vomit_ DaDI', more common in BrE than in AmE).
Doch Qav: ghu' wot nuq 'e' DatobmeH qatlh Hoch tera' Holmeyvo' DIvI'
Hol DawIvpu'? In Persian (to which Klingon is no more unrelated than
it is to English) `wait' is <monta.zer bUdan>, lit. `be expectant',
<bUdan> being the counterpart to English _be_.
> There is another pattern as well; there don't seem to be any stative
> verbs that have an obvious object.
DaH bIQagh. Su', Dung yIlegh.
Stativity is about the relation of the meaning of a verbal expression
to time. Transitivity is about the number of its syntactically
expressed participants. Why would one expect any causal connexion
between the two? (I'll grant that there is a statistical correlation,
for which there are reasons -- 'ach DaH Hemaj wImejQo'.)
> If you try to put an object in a sentence with a stative verb, you
> wind up with something like "?He is happy it" or "?they are green
> him." It just doesn't work.
Dochvam DajatlhnIS: `If you try to put an object in a sentence with
an intransitive verb (stative or otherwise), it just doesn't work'.
*_He walks him_Daq *_He dies him_Daq joq ghu' wot bIHbe' wotmey,
'ach DajatlhlaHbe'.
>> For example, does expectation qualify
>> as a condition? (It certainly doesn't seem dynamic.)
> While "expectation" perhaps might qualify as a condition, it is a noun.
HIja'. 'ej ghu' pongmo' DIp'e' lIng wot, ghu' pongba' je wot.
(Since the deverbal noun denotes a state, the cognate verb had
better be stative.)
> I consider the verb "expect" to be describing an action, not a state.
qatlh? chay' Datobta' 'e' Dacha'rup'a'?
> And one expects *something*; there is both a subject and an object.
ram. (Okay, it wouldn't if one tried to squeeze the object together
with the verb into a {law'/puS} construction -- one might want to --,
but if no object is named, the verb effectively becomes intransitive.)
>> Can we say:
>> meQtaHvIS veS, SoH loS law' Hoch latlhpu' loS puS.
>> While the war burned, you waited more than all the others.
> *I* can't say it, at least not with a straight face. It doesn't
> make sense to me, either in Klingon or in English, I'm afraid.
Well, `wait very much' doesn't make sense in English either, but
in Russian _ochen' zhdat'_ is perfectly idiomatic (and refers to
particularly intense expectation). Neither of which constitutes
conclusive proof of anything regarding Klingon.
> Does the phrase "waited more than" refer to waiting longer?
> Waiting more intensely? It's not at all clear to me.
{law'/puS} mu'qachDaq {tIn} 'oH rurbogh wot joq lo'lu'DI',
Doch rap tlhoblaH vay', qar'a'? Any quality has a duration
as well as a degree. In general in comparative constructions
it's the degree that is being compared.
> And how does war "burn"?
qay' nuq? qatlh Dayu' 'e' vIyajchu', ghoblu'meH 'etlhmey moy'bI' je neH
lo'lu'taHvIS. 'ach ngat 'oghlu'DI', qul'a'na' luchenmoHchoH noHmey.
> I suppose it's a poetic image, but without more context for
> the "style" of writing it doesn't sit very well with me.
teH. 'utbej Dorbogh mu'tlheghghom.
--'Iwvan
SKI: (1) There is no 1-to-1 correspondence between stativity and
the use of _be_ in English. (2) It is not obvious that _wait_ is
a dynamic verb.
--
"mIw'e' lo'lu'ta'bogh batlh tlhIHvaD vIlIH [...]
poH vIghajchugh neH jIH, yab boghajchugh neH tlhIH"
(Lewis Carroll, "_Snark_ wamlu'")
Ivan A Derzhanski <[email protected], [email protected]>
Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of Sciences
Home: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria