tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 19 01:06:19 1997

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RE: "Elder" musings

jatlh Voragh:

> So, how *do* we say the "elder brother"? [...]

> Let's see... "I'm older than my brother" is simply: jIH qan law'
> loDnI'(wI') qan puS. However, loDnI' qan just means an "old brother."

To get it straight off, we'd need a verb which includes the comparative.  
Unfortunately, there is no verb "be older."

> We have qup (an "elder"), as in quprIp "Council of Elders." Was this an
> early name for the body that we know better as the yejquv, the "High
> Council"? (If memory serves, Organia had a Council of Elders too, so this
> may be what Okrand was thinking of.)

I'm sure it was, along with {qevaS}, {DIlyum}, {HoSDo'}, and {'orghen}.  But 
remember, there are many planets in the Empire, and not all need be governed 
the same way.

> I wonder if the members of the Klingon
> High Council can be called "Elders" (quppu'). The dozen or so Council
> members represent the highest ranking Houses (tuqmey) in the Empire, in
> essence the "Elder Houses." Hmm... could the head of a House be called the
> tuq qup (or "epetai" in klingonaase)? We can, of course, call him the
> "leader" of the House, the tuq DevwI', but that seems so colorless. We do
> know that the Leader of the High Council (or Qang, "chancellor") can also
> be called the yejquv DevwI'. Isn't Gowron specifically addressed as
> "DevwI'" a couple of times in KCD? He is in the novelization.

Yes, he is.  Unfortunately, I don't see that any of this will help us.

> Getting back to brothers, our options for "elder/oldest brother" include:
>   1. loDnI' nIv - the "superior brother"

Ick.

>   2. loDnI' qan - the "old brother"

Ack.

>   3. loDnI' qanqu' - the "oldest brother" (as in QaQqu' and nIvqu' which,
>      though not actually superlatives, are both used in the two proverbs
>      about revenge (bortaS), cf. TKW p. 121 & 133)


I'm not sure, but I'd almost say I like this.  Well, no, maybe not.

>   4. qup loDnI' (or, loDnI' qup) - the "elder-brother" (a N-N phrase)
>   5. moch loDnI' (or, loDnI moch) - the "brother-superior" (as it were)

N-N doesn't seem to do it.

> Comments?  Alternatives?

If you're talking about the eldest brother, you might say {loDnI' wa'DIch}.

> BTW, was Kahless the older brother of Morath or was Morath the elder?

Ohhh . . . I forget . . .

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97135.1

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