tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Feb 15 12:23:56 1997

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RE: nobHa'

February 14, 1997 7:30 PM EST, jatlh HomDoq:

> 4) in response to SuStel:
> 
> -Voragh has pointed out the canon, which I was actually not aware of when I 
> -wrote this.  I thought the context was quite clear.  The Terran gave the 
> -bartender something.  {nob} was used for that.  When the bartender "undoes" 

> -that action, by giving back the money, you use {nobHa'}.
> -
> I did not say, that I considered it to be ambiguous...
> 
> -I don't think there's any reason to believe that {-Ha'} indicates an exact 
> -reversal of events.  It indicates that an action is undone, or done 
> -incorrectly.
> now that means that the identities of the people involved are more or
> less arbitrary, right?
> 
> so you either have that the reversal can be done by whomever, so that
> {nobHa'} _can_ mean "take back" if the subject _is_ the one who did the
> giving, while it means "give back" if the subject is the one who originally
> was the recipient, and finally it means "bring back" if the subject was
> not involved in the original transaction.

Essentially, yes.  Just because English requires different phrases doesn't 
mean Klingon must.  In Klingon, {nobHa'} seems to do just fine.

> or (referring to the "either" above) you have a unique way of deciding who
> must be the subject of <verb>-Ha' if you know the roles of the people
> involved in <verb>

I don't think this is the case.

> I really would like to have this {-Ha'} tracked down... :(

It's one of those all-purpose, and therefore very vague, features of Klingon 
which can cause trouble on occasion.

> -{HevHa'} might work, but I don't like it.  Ugly.  Feel free to disagree.
> I do (feel free :)... what is "ugly" about _Hev_Ha' as opposed to any
> other <verb>-Ha'?

I don't like to see {Hev} in this context (that of paying for something) in 
general.  Not because it's wrong, but because it's very passive.  {HevHa'} 
just seems to be another passive word.

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97127.4

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