tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 13 18:09:23 1997

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RE: nobHa' (was: tach Such)

February 13, 1997 3:27 PM EST, jatlh HomDoq:

> > tera'nganvaD latlh nobHa'.
> > He gives the additional back to the Terran.
> > 
> > Here, {nobHa'} means "ungive."
> > 
> is this canon? I understand {nobHa'} in a way that the _Subject_ is
> taking back what the (Ind) _Object_ had been given before (not necessarily
> by Subject though)

Voragh has pointed out the canon, which I was actually not aware of when I 
wrote this.  I thought the context was quite clear.  The Terran gave the 
bartender something.  {nob} was used for that.  When the bartender "undoes" 
that action, by giving back the money, you use {nobHa'}.

I don't think there's any reason to believe that {-Ha'} indicates an exact 
reversal of events.  It indicates that an action is undone, or done 
incorrectly.

> and if you want to say, "well, that would be {yaHmoH}",

No, I wouldn't say that.  For one thing, {yaH} is "be taken away," not "take 
away."

> I think the 
> difference is in the perceived order of events, thus
> 
> {nob} gives - {nobHa'} takes back
>               {yaHmoH} takes away - {yaHHa'moH} gives back
> 
> (but I don't think you could use {yaHHa'moH} for the bartender example,
> _maybe_, just maybe, {HevHa'} as in {tera'nganvaD latlh HevHa'}.)

No, I wouldn't use {yaHmoH} or {yaHHa'moH} here, because the Terran is 
*giving* his money to the bartender, not having it taken away.  The only way I 
would use that would be if you were building up the idea of this money being 
very important to the Terran, who doesn't really want to part with it, but 
must in order to get the drink.  Then, of course, you're talking about 
artistic license, and I'm not going to get into that.

{HevHa'} might work, but I don't like it.  Ugly.  Feel free to disagree.

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97122.7

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