tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 13 07:06:17 1997
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Re: Word Origin Speculation II
- From: Ivan A Derzhanski <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Word Origin Speculation II
- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:05:16 -0800
- Organization: Institute for Mathematics and Computer Science
- References: <[email protected]>
Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
> >From: "Kenneth Traft" <[email protected]>
> >Posted for Glen Proechel, director of the Interstellar Language School
> >***NOTE -- This is speculation and is NOT canon
>
> [...] At any rate, does it really *matter* if Okrand didn't think
> all these? They're still really cool correspondences, accidental
> or intentional, and can be mighty helpful in remembering what for me
> is the toughest part of Klingon: the vocabulary.
Yes, it does really matter. Note that the subject of the thread is
`Word Origin Speculation'. It pretends to be a thread on how those
words actually came into being (that is, how they made an appearance
in Okrand's mind). Which is not nearly the same thing as how someone
could go about memorising them.
> Glen never said he knew Okrand's mind in this, he said he was
> speculating; let a man speculate a little.
A little, indeed! ... Sometimes speculation gets too wild to be
tolerated, you know. About half of Glen's guesses made me exclaim
{qarchugh qechvam, qIvonwIj vIpe' vIchev 'ej tlholtaHvIS vISop}.
> >Klingon word <<lom>> and its apparent connection to the English
> >"loam" and "lam."
Personally, I prefer relating {lam} to Spanish/Italian _lama_ `mud,
slime, ooze, silt'.
> >tIq = heart (ticker),
>
> That I've seen too...
Yes, hearts and clocks are similar in that they go {tIq-tlhaq} ...
> >pI' = fat (pig),
>
> Never thought of that one.
Seems bogus to me. You can prove anything if you settle for just
two matching sounds.
> Like "Sop" for "sup"...
To my mind {Sop} has iconic value, as does {chop}. Sound symbolism,
you know. A greedy eating sound culminating in the snapping of the jaws.
> > 'IH = beautiful (ick), [...]
So English [k] can correspond to {H} and (presumably) {Q} and {'}
as well as {q}. That's the slippery slope of wishful thinking that
eventually gets one to derive Middletown from Marmaduke.
I take it {mob} `be alone' is what you don't when in a mob?
> >2) Reversies. That is, forming synonyms or antonyms by saying the
> >words backwards: megh = lunch, ghem = midnight snack, puq = child,
> >Qup = young,
Make that {qup} `elder', quite appropriate, actually. -- The notions
of {batlh} `honour' and {tlhab} `freedom' are also sort of related.
> >4) Internal changes: In some cases synonyms are created by changing
> >the middle vowel: [...] ghur = increase (go up), ghIr = decrease (go
> >down), [...].
Bzzt. {ghIr} is `descend', the opposite of {Sal} `ascend', and `decrease'
is {nup}.
> [...] magh/mugh has been mentioned alot, and I bet it's intended:
> it's just what a linguist would be *very* mindful of.
Hm. I'm hardly very mindful of it, although I do know the Italian adage.
> >8) Because they're so much fun, here are some more puns: [...]
>
> Some (most) of these seem kind of far-out to my mind, but that's just me.
I don't think so. More likely they really are far-out.
> > The sex-specific words for marriage are interesting and seem to
> >derive from German: [...]
See, Mark, he's speculating about what actually derives from where,
not looking for mnemonics (which by definition rest on coincidences).
> >The word <<mIr>> for chain is an interesting one because it seems
> >to derive from Soviet propaganda. Workers of the world unite! You
> >have nothing to lose but your CHAINS. The word MIR! peace is an
> >ever-recurring word in Soviet propaganda.
Quatsch. Having been exposed to more Russian text of all genres than
most people on this forum, I can testify that the sentence with the
chains (unlike the immediately preceding one) was not often quoted in
Soviet political writing; I don't even know its canonical Russian
translation (in so far as there is one). And of course words meaning
`peace' recur all the time in every country's propaganda these days.
I wonder when someone will suggest that {yuD} is derived from the
stereotypical Christian perception of Jews. Or is that too imPC?
For the curious: {wa'} looks very much like the Ancient Egyptian
<w`> `one', and {maH} is practically identical to the Ossetic word
for `we'.
--
"reH Sov yInej 'ej Dap yImuS, <dOstI bA mardom-e dAnA nEkO-st,
jagh val qaq law' jup QIp qaq puS" do^sman-e dAnA beh az nAdAn dOst>
(Sheikh Muslihuddin Abu Muhammad Abdullah Saadi Shirazi)
Ivan A Derzhanski <[email protected], [email protected]>
Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of Sciences
Home: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria