tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Dec 04 09:56:00 1997

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Re: Noun-noun with {'e'}

>Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:37:44 -0800 (PST)
>From: Marian Schwartz <[email protected]>
>
>ghItlh Qov
>>}Can someone tell me why I shouldn't use {'e'} as the first noun of a pair
>>}of nouns in this way?  This is scaring me; the longer I look at it, the
>>}more I think it works.  I'm not going to run with it just yet; I'll wait
>>}for somebody to point out the obvious reason for it's being wrong. :-)
>>}The week is not yet finished, and I really didn't want to get into a big
>>}debate over yet another topic at the frontier of Klingon grammar...
>>
>>For one, {'e'} is a pronoun, and pronouns are only used in possessives
>when
>>it's a noun of proximity.  'ej vIpar jIH.  DujwIj Davoq'a' :)
>
>And because, to quote Krankor (if I remember it correctly): "{'e'} is
>explicitly listed under the section of "Sentences as objects."  We should
>not assume, without clearer evidence from canon, that it can be used for
>Sentences as subjects."  This usage isn't a subject, but it's something
>other than direct object.  (That *is* an interesting question.  In {vaj Duj
>chIj} is {vaj} the object?  This doesn't seem right; could someone give a
>clear argument to disprove it?)  But *I* do believe that you can say
>{'e''e' vISov!}  "I know *that*!"

TKD is quite explicit: "They ['e' and net] are always treated as the object
of the verb...."  The object.  Not the subject, the locative, or anything
else.  In {yaS Duj chIl HoD}, {yaS} is not the object.  The object is the
thing that the captain lost.  Did the captain lose the officer?  i should
think not!  He lost a ship.  A *ship*, mind you.  It's the {Duj} that is
the object.  True, that ship is *modified* by the presence of {yaS}; if you
will, yaS would be in genitive case if Klingon marked it (personally, I'd
rather consider it would be in genitive+accusative, if Klingon marked
both), but it is a modifier on the actual subject, the ship.

{'e''e'} makes my flesh crawl marginally less than other type-5's on 'e',
but only marginally.  I don't much like it.

~mark

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