tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Aug 27 08:59:33 1997

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing



[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: mu'tlheghmeywIj



At 05:35 AM 8/27/97 -0700, Dawut wrote:

Welcome, Dawut.  I am Qov, currently Beginner's Grammarian, which means the
people who did it before me have decided you can trust me to evaluate your
work, and that others will hold their tongues until I have done that.
Include the letters "KLBC" in the subject line to mark postings you want the
BG to look at.

>nuqneH.

There is divided opinion on whether it is appropriate for you, who wants
something (our attention) to come onto the list and say something that means
roughly "whatdyawant" to us.  Some say it still means that.  Some say it's
just a greeting with no literal meaning.  

>tlhIngan Hol vIHaDtaH.
>I study the Klingon language.

maj. Specifically you are studying it on an ongoing basis.  Nothing wrong
with the English translation not showing the aspect, though.

>tlhIngan HolvaD mu'tlhegh qach vIpojlI'.
>I am studying sentence structure for the Klingon language.

The -vaD suffix indicates that you are doing something for the benefit or
the purposes of the noun it's attached to.  It's not a general purpose way
to translate "for."  What you really mean is the sentence structure *of* the
Klingon language.  The noun qach refers to a building or structure like a
dilithium mining complex or a radio tower, not the abstract concept of
arrangement.  You don't lose any meaning by simply saying "I am analyzing
Klingon sentences."

tlhIngan Hol mu'tlhegh (or mu'tlheghmey) vIpojlI'.

>mu'tlheghwIj bochov 'e' vItlhob.
>Please assess my sentences.

Your Klingon sentence: "I request that you (plural) assess my sentence(s)."
is not incorrect, but it would be much better said the way you said it in
English. Be direct in Klingon!

mu'tlheghwIj tIchov.
Assess my sentences.

Note the imperative prefix tI- indicating plural sentences.  (See section
4.1.2 of TKD).  The circumlocutions we use in English to be polite (would
you please, could you, would you mind if) don't even exist in all
terrestrial languages. If you feel an overwhelming need to be polite and
subservient you could use the verb suffix -neS, but it is never required.
 
>I have been wondering about the limitations of Klingon sentence 
>structuring in regards to compound sentences.  I have come up with ideas 
>for sentences which may be invalid, but I am unable to confirm or deny 
>their validity with the few examples in TKD and the canon sources 
>available to me.
>
>Here are examples of what I am talking about, starting with standard 
>simple sentences expanding into my questionable constructions.
>
>
>Example 1:  Use of multiple sentences-as-objects
>
>pIj Dalo'     // You use it/them often.
>{pIj Dalo'} 'e' bItIv     // You enjoy _that_  you use it/them often.
>{pIj Dalo' 'e' bItIv} 'e' vItul     // I hope _that_  you enjoy that you 
>use it/them often.
>
>/* pIj Dalo' 'e' bItIv 'e' vItul   "I hope that you often enjoy using 
>them." */

I don't think we've ever seen this done in canon, but there is no reason
other than loss of intelligibility that the sentence-as-object cannot itself
contain a sentence as object.  You can often rewrite such constructs as more
than one sentence.  Note that there is a prefix error in your example: bItIv
should be DatIv - You enjoy THAT, so the 3rd person singular object prefix
is required.

>Example 2:  Using {vaj} with {'e'} and {net}
>
>choja'Qo'chugh vaj qaHoHnIS
>// If you refuse to tell me, then I must kill you.
>
>{choja'Qo'chugh vaj qaHoHnIS} net Sov
>//One knows _that_  If you refuse to tell me, then I must kill you.
>
>{choja'Qo'chugh vaj qaHoHnIS} 'e' bISov
>//You know _that_  If you refuse to tell me, then I must kill you.
>
>/* choja'Qo'chugh vaj qaHoHnIS 'e' bISov  "You know that if you don't 
>tell me, I gotta kill you." */
>
>Would these qualify as valid sentences from among the "complex and 
>convoluted" sentences written of on TKD p.59, or are these sentences 
>simply invalid?  Has there been any issues of HolQeD which have 
>addressed this?  (I only have the first volume of HolQeD, and am 
>interested in getting important back-issues.)

Again the prefix bI- (on bISov) should be Da-.  Remember you are using a
sentence AS OBJECT, so the pronoun prefix must be in accord with that object.

Other than that, these sentences are fine.  You're not really doing anything
radical, you're just plugging a more complex sentence into the slot after
the vaj.  {bIjeghbe'chugh vaj ...} "If you don't surrender then ..."
Absolutely any valid Klingon sentence may follow. {choja'Qo'chugh vaj lojpa'
noSvaghwIj Hoch yIHmeyvaD romuluSngan Hol vIghojmoH pu'beHlIj vISoptaHvIS
'e' Har SoSlI'.} Again, the limits are what your reader's brain can parse
before the meaning breaks down.

>Satlho'neS mu'meywIj DalaDmo'.
>Sujangchugh vaj Satlho'qa'neS.
>Qapla'!

Qapla' DachavbejlI'
Qov  ([email protected])
Beginning Beginners' Grammarian



Back to archive top level