tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Apr 08 01:37:50 1997

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RE: KLBC: old stuff

On Friday, April 04, 1997 4:32 PM, [email protected] on behalf of Elren 
Schmelrin wrote:

> The storm at Quin'lat

Hey, I translated this myself, once.  Then again, I'll bet most people have . 
. .

> A storm was heading towards the city of Quin'lat. 
> The people sort protection within the walls, 
> all except one man who remained outside. 
> Kahless went to him and said "What are you doing?" 
> "I am not afraid of the wind", he said, "I will not hide my face behind
> stone and mortar." 
> "I will stand before the wind and make it respect me." 
> Kahless honoured his choice and went inside. 
> The next day the storm came and the man was killed. 
> Kahless said to the people, "The wind does not respect a fool."
> 
> QIn'latDaq SuS'a'

I don't know how Klingons correctly "spell" the name of this city.  I'd guess 
{QInlat} myself.  However, if there is no official word for it, you've got to 
mark it with asterisks.  That way, we on the list know you're using a name, 
and don't go trying to look it up.

Now, about the title.  Here you've tried to use a noun with a Type 5 noun 
suffix on it to modify another noun.  We cannot do this; Type 5 suffixed words 
modify a phrase or a verb, not a noun.  The best way to say this correctly 
would probably be just {*QInlat* SuS'a'}.

By the way, I always thought the title of this was {qoH SuS je}.

> QIn'lat veng jaHtaH SuS'a'

If you want the city to be the object of the verb, you must choose {ghoS}.  If 
you want to use {jaH}, you need a {-Daq} on {veng}.

*QInlat* veng ghoStaH SuS'a'
or
*QInlat* vengDaq jaH SuS'a'.

> veHnaghmeyDaq QanmeH nejta' ghotpu'

"In order to protect in boundary-rocks the people had sought."

Not quite.  First, I think you're going to need to put any {-meH} clauses 
before {-Daq} nouns; {-meH} clauses come at the beginning of the sentence, and 
you won't split up the other clause.

Your idea for "wall" is as good as any other I've seen.  My own suggestion 
would be {veng veHmey} "city's boundaries."

So, who are the people protecting {QanmeH}?  Oh, you mean someone or something 
is protecting them?  Well, you aren't interested in just who is doing the 
protecting, just that they are protected.  Therefore, an indefinite subject 
suffix is in order:

chaH luQanlu'meH
in order that they are protected

Now, what are they seeking?  Protection?  We don't have a word for that in 
Klingon, and I'd rather avoid trying to construct one with {-ghach}.  Why not 
rephrase this with verbs?

chaH Qan veng veHmey neH roghvaH
The population wanted the city boundaries to protect them.

> 'ach Hur ratlhta' wa' loD

You need a {-Daq}: {HurDaq ratlhta' wa' loD}.

> ghaHDaq jaHta' qeylIS' 'ej jatlh nuq bIvangtaH

It's spelled {qeylIS}.

Now, we're talking about an action that is currently happening in the story, 
so you don't need an aspect marker.  Remember, {-ta'} and {-pu'} indicate that 
an action has been completed as of the time that you're talking about.  But 
this is happening AT the time we're talking about.

Finally, I'm not sure that {vang} can take an object.  (And even if it did, 
you'd need the prefix {Da-}, not {bI-}.  Rather, I'd say

jatlh qatlh naDev bIratlhtaH?

> mughIjbe' SuS jatlh nagh ruSwI' je vISo'be' qabwIj

What are your subjects and objects here?  Be careful.  Also, use some 
punctuation.  It's perfectly allowed to mimic your voice.  Also, English likes 
having sentences like

"<conversation>," said So-and-so, "<continue conversation."

I don't know if Klingon can do this, but at least punctuate it.

You are amazingly lucky that I figured out that *{ruS} was supposed to be 
"bond."  It's not.  You absolutely cannot take apart words like {ruStay} and 
expect them to yield new words.  There is at least one word which we *know* 
this cannot be done with, and I'm not about to start coming up with weird 
ideas like this.

Personally, I don't see much point in worrying about the "mortar" part.  
Here's how I would do it:

<mughIjbe' SuS> jatlh loD.
<qabwIj So'taH nagh veH 'e' vIchaw'Qo'.>

"The wind does not scare me," said the man.
"I won't permit a rock boundary to hide my face."

> SuSDaq vIQam 'ej muvuvmoH 'oH

Heh . . . "I stand it in the wind and it makes me respect."

First, {SuSDaq} is not the object of {Qam}, so you need the "no-object" 
prefix, {jI-}.  Then, you must reverse the subject and objects.  But there's a 
problem . . .

"I make it respect me."  Well, "I make it respect" is easy: {'oH vIvuvmoH}.  
But where does the idea of whom it must repect go?  That's the problem.  It's 
neither subject nor object, and I don't think it's even an indirect object.  
So, we're going to need something a little more complex.  Here's a little 
trick:

muvuv 'oH 'e' vIraD.
I will force it to respect me.

> batlh Qochbe'ta' qeylIS 'ej vengDaq jaHta'

Again, you don't need any aspect suffixes here.  Indeed, they're probably 
wrong.

Kahless may have honored his choice, but he certainly didn't agree with it!  
You'd better find another word.

wIvDaj quvmoH qeylIS 'ej veng 'el.
Kahless honored his choice and entered the city.

I kinda like the {veng 'el} bit, so I added that in there.  Without the 
{-ta'}, yours isn't wrong.

> jajchu' ghoSpu' jevwI' 'ej loD HoHpu' 'oH

{jaj chu'} has to be two days.  That's an interesting way to say "the next 
day."  In my original translation of this story, I used {qaSDI' tlha'bogh 
jaj}.

We have {jev} as "storm (v)."  I can only assume that this means the sort of 
storming that one does Billy Crystal-style, as in "storming the castle."  I 
would not say {jevwI'} for a storm.  (It's more like "storm trooper"!)

Once again, you have to remove the aspect suffixes.  They don't belong here.

Now, do you mean that the storm approached, or that it arrived?  Why not use 
{paw} instead of {ghoS}?

jaj chu' paw SuS'a' 'ej loD HoH 'oH.

> ghotpu' jatlh qeylIS qoH vuvbe' SuS

If Kahless is not speaking the people, he's speaking to the people, or 
speaking so that the people can receive his words.  Use {-vaD} to indicate 
that the people are the beneficiaries of Kahless speaking.

ghotpu'vaD jatlh qeylIS <qoH vuvbe' SuS>.

I thought there was one more line to this story.  I translated it as {SuS 
yIqaDQo'}.

> i hope it's good.

batlh bImugh.  maHvaD lut Daqonpu'bogh Daja'qang'a'?

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 97268.2

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