tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Nov 09 14:22:32 1996

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RE: KLBC: Let's try again...

jatlh mIqIraH:

>  I'm here to dust myself off and try again!

not yIjegh!

>  I'll try to 
>  translate the Star Trek Encyclopedia entry on the {Daqtagh}, just for 
>  lack of anything better.  So you can follow my though processes, I'll use 
>  the same system as last time.

I've got lots of Trek reference books (I always groan whenever they do 
something with the transporters which the Technical Manual says cannot be 
done), but I've never read the Encyclopedia (believe it or not).  I'll get my 
first entry now!

(You don't suppose it's a violation of copyright to quote it here, do you?)

>  [tlhIngan Hol]
>  lurDech tajDaj SuvwI' tlhIngan Daqtagh'e'.  may'Hom SuvmeH lo'taH 'ej 
>  lurDech wanI'vaD lo'taH 'e' wej 'ay'mey jej ghajtaHbogh nuH naS Daqtagh.
>  
>  [Original]
>  d'k tahg.  Traditional Klingon warrior's knife.  A vicious, three-bladed 
>  weapon, the d'k tahg is commonly used in hand to hand combat, as well as 
>  in many ceremonies.
>  
>  [Literal]
>  d'k tahg.  Klingon warrior's knife of tradition.  The d'k tahg, a vicious 
>  weapon that has three sharp sections, is used in small battles and it is 
>  used in events of traddition.

"d'k tahg.  Traditional Warriors knife."

This is an incomplete sentence, and you have chosen to translate it as such.  
Your version is "d'ktahg.  Klingon warrior's knife of tradition."

*{lurDech tajDaj SuvwI' tlhIngan Daqtagh'e'}

You've got a lot of nouns jammed in together, and this makes your sentence 
difficult to follow.  When I read this, I see "tradition his knife's warrior 
Klingon d'ktahg."

Let's work this one out.  What's the noun which you are ultimately trying to 
describe?  {Daqtagh}.  What sort of knife is it?  You have said "knife of 
tradition."  This can also be thought of as a "tradition knife."  {lurDech 
Daqtagh}.

  Now, who "owns" the knife?  A Klingon warrior {tlhIngan SuvwI'}.  Since the 
possessor noun always comes before the noun being possessed (TKD 25), this is 
{tlhIngan SuvwI' lurDech Daqtagh}.  Note that if one noun possesses another, 
you don't need a Type 4 noun suffix on either one.

Again, since this is an incomplete sentence, it could be very difficult for a 
reader to follow.  Let me suggest the following complete sentence:

{lurDechvaD Daqtagh'e' lo' tlhIngan SuvwI'.}
"For tradition, a Klingon warrior uses the d'k tahg."

The "for tradition" part means that when a Klingon uses the d'k tahg, it is 
tradition that benefits.  See TKD example (p.20) {Qu'vaD lI' De'vam}.  I've 
also topicalized {Daqtagh} in order to show that it is the main point of the 
sentence.

Your next sentence was more complicated than reading Hamlet!  English likes to 
use long phrases connected with clauses and prepositions going on nearly 
forever.  Klingon doesn't.  In Klingon, you've got to break your sentence up 
into manageable parts.  It's not that it *must* be done, but the grammar just 
doesn't like to be twisted out of proportion like that.

The original was "A vicious, three-bladed weapon, the d'k tahg is commonly 
used in hand to hand combat, as well as in many ceremonies."

That is a real mouthful in Klingon!  Your attempt was quite good (although I'm 
not sure what you were doing with that {'e'} sentence), but it's just too long 
to parse and analyze (at least, if I plan on doing anything else today!).  I'd 
prefer to break it up in this way:

"The d'ktahg is a vicious weapon with three blades.  It is commonly used in 
hand-to-hand combat.  It is also used in many ceremonies."

{wej 'etlh ghajbogh nuH naS 'oH Daqtagh'e'.  may'HomvaD lo'lu'.  tay law'vaD 
lo'lu'.}

Wow!  How'd it get so short?  Because I broke it into seperate ideas.  Let me 
explain my major changes to your original attempt.

I think you can follow the first sentence.  It is primarily a {Y 'oH X'e'} 
type of sentence.  The Y part is {wej 'etlh ghajbogh nuH naS}.  Note that I 
chose not to put {-'e'} on the head noun of this phrase.  I did this becuase I 
did not want to confuse this {-'e'} with the one on {Daqtagh}.

The second sentence, {may'HomvaD lo'lu'}, is literally "One uses it for minor 
battles."  I can certainly see {may'Hom} as referring to a battle on the scale 
of a hand-to-hand combat.  I used the Type 6 verb suffix {-lu'} to indicate 
that the subject is unspecified.  You don't know exactly who is using the d'k 
tahg (beyond "Klingon warrior"), so this is useful.  And since we're obviously 
talking about a d'k tahg, I don't need to specify it again with an object.

{tay law'vaD lo'lu'}  "One uses it for many ceremonies."  You were obviously 
unaware of the word {tay} which is in the Addendum of TKD.  I'm sure you can 
follow this one.

>  this any better?  I'm sure there are still tons of mistakes, but I'm 
>  learning.

Not so much mistakes.  You're just taking overly-large bites!

>  -mIqIraH (Was: McReynolds; Transliteration: Mikrahk.  I decided to create 
>  a name afterall.  I agree with SuStel... most of those translated names 
>  sound too Native American for my taste!)

Heh . . . I decided this after I had decided upon my own name, which is half a 
translation and half a sound I liked.  mIqIraH is a cool name.  batlh 
DawIvpu'!

SuStel
Stardate 96859.4

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