tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Nov 05 10:45:39 1996

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RE: KLBC: mughmey

jatlh HurghwI':

>  >Before I say anything else, let me point out that the subject line of this 

>  >message has a noun suffix attached to a verb.  This is illegal.  The 
attempt 
>  >was to say "translations," but this is not the way to do it.  {mugh} is 
not a 
>  >noun.
>  
>  I was actually kind of using non-canon when I used mugh as a noun. I
>  couldn't attach {-ghach} to it because it has no suffixes. I assumed the
>  noun suffix would make it clear that this isn't used as a verb.

Ohh, that's a no-no!  :)  A verb is a verb and a noun is a noun, unless Marc 
Okrand says otherwise.

As a side-note, you technically "can" add {-ghach} to a verb with no suffixes, 
although then it becomes a term which stands out as very funny looking; it's 
called "marked" usage.  But suppose I used the word {mughlI'ghach}.  The 
resultant noun of a {-ghach}'ed verb is the *process* of doing the action, or 
the *state* of being the quality.  So, {mughlI'ghach} means "the act of 
translating (with a known stopping point)," and {QuchtaHghach} means 
"continued happiness."  If you haven't, read over Okrand's intervies in HolQeD 
3:3, and Krankor's review of this interview in HolQeD 3:4.

>  >I, for one, love Klingon puns.  But they've got to be funny in Klingon!
>  
>  I was not intending to create a pun. I just thought the sentence would be
>  interesting to translate. If I had even tried to make it funny in Klingon, 
I
>  obviously would have had to use the same word for both "smells," and I >  
didn't.

vaj chomISmoH 'e' DaHech, qar'a'?  {{:-)

>  >However, the sentence has merit.  You have used {qIH} to mean "meet," 
which 
>  >was an interesting idea, but without the English translation, I'd be 
>  >hard-pressed to realize that {SaSwI'} meant "horizon."  Even then, {qIH} 
means 
>  >"meet for the first time."  The sun appears to "meet" the horizon every 
day, 
>  >so I woud say that {ghom} would be the verb for this purpose.
>  
>  It seems pretty obvious that the sentence cannot be literally true. I was,
>  once again, using it as merely a translation excercise. I used qIH to
>  indicate "where the sun _rises_." Because the sun rises at the horizon each
>  morning, this is the first time, in a sense, that it meets the horizon.

{qIH} means the sort of situation in which one Terran would say to another 
Terran, "How do you do?  My name is So-and-So."  If I meet So-and-So for 
coffee each morning (actually, I hate coffee; I drink tea or hot chocolate), I 
don't meet him for the first time each morning.  I'd say {Qu'meywIj vItaghpa', 
*HurghwI'* vIghom.}  For this reason, you can't use {qIH} in the way you have.

>  >However, I'd like to suggest a different approach.  You could say 
something 
>  >like {taghDI' Hoch jaj, nargh Hovmaj.  bIngDajDaq qaghom.}  "Our star 
appears 
>  >at the beginning of each day. I'll meet you below it."  A more literal 
>  >translation of this would be rendered as "As soon as each day begins, our 
star 
>  >appears.  I will meet you at its area-below."  Again, it's a somewhat 
"poetic" 
>  >way to say things, but then it's a poetic sentiment.
>  
>  It seems to me that this could convey that you'll meet them at noon. 

Not if you remember the time-context!  If it's not clear enough, you could add 
an additional timestamp at the beginning of the second sentence: {jajlo'}.

SuStel
Stardate 96845.9

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