tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 17 13:07:27 1996
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Re: "canon" (was Re: Words for "God")
> >neH rejmorgh jIH, 'ach jIQochqu'
>
> "rejmorgh neH jIH"; "neH" follows the noun.
bIlugh. veqlargh, DaH yImej!
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gharghmey ngaSwI'vam vIpoSta' 'e' vIHechbe'qu'
'ach gharghmey wImuSHa'....
I really didn't mean to open this can of worms.... but we do love worms....
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> >2) CANON is, and will always be a sticky thing, but Paramount ONLY defines
> > canon, and Okrand as their hired gun does so. The ONLY
> > final rule of "canon"icity is "what is from Paramount" (usually
> > explicitly "what is filmed from *P*"). This has led to backfit
> > words and such in the past and will in the future, with the
> > eccentric and cavalier use of the language by the scriptwriters.
>
> I disagree with you here;
No, I don't think so.
Actually, for the most part, I DON'T disagree with with you.
> I think this may be a Star Trek Fan vs. Klingon
> Linguist kind of thing. I like Trek, sure; I've watched most of the
> episodes; I try not to miss it when it's on... and I liked it even before I
> got into Klingon (though Klingon has made me more careful about watching
> it).
o Well, there I'll disagree:
- I'm not a slavish Trek fan, and I don't feel any particular
loyalty to Paramount - I'm sure not going to sign up
on MSN to get to *their* website.
- I'll go to my first Trek convention this August (and I've
watched the show forever, since TOS). Nowadays,
I rarely watch the shows (though I try to keep up with
Voyager) and keep up with them via the net. Anyway, I
like books better than TV/Film, and tend to be
far more up to date on Trek books than shows
I only MEANT to say that when people HAVE to start drawing the line over
what IS canon, The only UNQUESTIONED rule is what is
derived from Paramount; i.e. what is filmed.
> But I'm into Klingon because of the LANGUAGE aspect, as a constructed
> language that someone invented that seems interesting, and which
> coincidentally also happens to be used in Paramount's little shows. I am
> primarily a student of linguistics studying Klingon, and only secondarily
> someone who watches the show for which it was created. To me, Klingon is a
> language created by and maintained by Marc Okrand, and occasionally
> (mis)used by a film company.
o Rather than being a language buff, I'm an SF buff, including
Trek. For me, the appeal of the Klingon language,
and of Trek in general is that there is SUCH
an extent of cultures, information and speculation around -
INCLUDING LANGUAGES - from 'ZINES, "journals" and other sources.
> I am not concerned with Star Trek canon;
o Me neither.
> I don't lose sleep over the fact that there's no way to make Stardates come
> out to any sensible unit of time, or that Klingons developed forehead
> ridges between series, or a million other little inconsistencies that worry
> Trek fandom. To me, what Paramount does to Klingon is more like what it
> does to physics. It uses it and misuses it and bends it to its needs (and
> not always the same way every time). I don't feel I have to reconcile Star
> Trek's version of science with known scientific facts/theories, nor to
> reconcile known facts/theories with Star Trek. From my standpoint, I
> couldn't care less what Paramount's writers claim is or isn't in Klingon;
> it's OKRAND's language.
o Anyway, when I look at this stuff I think the BROADEST
canon is far more fun than the narrowest, here probably because
I'm not so obsessed as to try to harmonize every inconsistency
(and there are of course MANY).
o I'd guess that more people will be exposed to Friedman's Klingon in the
next year than Okrand's. In my book it makes it just as "official"
as what we have. Thats okay - we're better off telling
people what odds and ends in Friedman-ese ARE like modern tlhIngan
than we are if we rail against his failings. I've found people
show more interest in real Okrand-ese tlhIngan when I show them
my "speak Klingon badly" web page
(http://pages.prodigy.com/mrklingon/bad.html) than if I just
start explaining off how Klingon is SUPPOSED to be... and
how BAD Paramount does it...
| |
,'._ Dochvam 'oH vuDwIj'e'. pImlaH vuDlIj. ,'._
' ~ ' ~
joel anderson * [email protected] * [email protected]
mIghghachvo' yImej 'ej yIQaQ; roj yInej 'ej Dochvam yItlha'
http://pages.prodigy.com/mrklingon * [email protected]