tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Dec 13 14:42:48 1996
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RE: story, part 4
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: story, part 4
- Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 22:19:07 UT
December 12, 1996 3:55 PM, jatlh ghunchu'wI':
> ja' SuStel:
> > > "wa'DIch 'Iv?"
> > {wa'DIch} must always follow a noun (unless, of course, you're singing
{taHjaj
> > wo'}).
>
> "Always"? We know that numbers can stand alone as nouns, and we also
> know that {cha'DIch} works by itself in at least one case. Why
> shouldn't {wa'DIch} be permitted to mean something like "first one"?
I'll respond to these in reverse order. The term {cha'DIch} for the aide who
fights for someone not permitted to engage in combat himself is most likely a
highly ritualized word. A phrase which was cut down to one word I speculate..
Okrand finally "sanctioned" this word himself in TKW (p. 21), but simply says
it means "second" (which we all knew anyway . . .). However, Okrand did not
come up with this word himself (at least, I doubt anyone consulted him). This
is probably why he mentions it in TKW at all: he's acknowledging it for us.
In all of the cases I can think of, whenever Okrand tries to make up for
someone else's screwups in Klingon, he treats it as an exception. I expect
(my opinion) that {cha'DIch} is one of them.
But if you don't like that, how about TKD? Page 54 says "Numbers are used as
nouns. As such, they may stand alone as subjects or objects or they may
modify another noun." Later, he says "Ordinal numbers follow the noun."
Except for the originally non-Okrandian {cha'DIch} (and one Skybox card which
doesn't make sense, and which isn't treating its {wa'DIch} in the same manner
at all), this rule has not been violated.
> > > pay' much'egh 'eb.
> > "An opportunity presents itself" is an English saying. We know from TKW
p. 51
> > that Klingons "capture" opportunities. At first, I was going to suggest
> > {nargh 'eb} "an opportunity appears," but this also means "an opportunity
> > escapes," which is exactly what a Klingon says when referring to a missed
> > opportunity.
>
> Hey, I like this particular ambiguity a lot! {ghaHvaD nargh 'eb}
> would imply that the "appearance/escape" was a good thing, right?
Why would you like the ambiguity between something good (which is true) and
something bad (which is not true)? {nargh 'eb} definitely means "an
opportunity escapes," which is a bad thing. Since this is an established
Klingon expression, the only reasons I can see using {nargh 'eb} for "an
opportunity appears" is when you're relying on the ambiguity of the language
to make some performance trick (misleading the listeners to create an effect)
or when you're using it poetically.
> > I don't know; maybe {much'egh 'eb} would make sense to a Klingon. Or {'eb
> > legh velqa}. I doubt that something which is to be captured would be
worth
> > much if it "presented" itself (I mean, where's the fun in capturing
something
> > which is *asking* to be captured?).
>
> {pay' 'eb jon velqa}. nap, qar'a'?
[QuchDajDaq mup'egh SuStel] toH! napba'!
--
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 96952.6