tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Dec 06 23:31:15 1996

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RE: KLBC Rules... Transitive vs Intransitive

jatlh SuStel:

>Here's the example I've always used. Take the verb {ghor}. It's glossed as 
>"break." Does this mean "break something," or does it mean "fall apart"? 
>These are different meanings! English tends to allow almost anything to be 
>used transitively or intransitively, but that's no reason to assume that 
>Klingon can, too.

I agree that's no reason to assume that Klingon can, but I don't understand
the reason we assume that Klingon can't??????????????

>Unfortunately, there are some verbs which are not clear at all. Either they 
>have not been used in canon or were used ambiguously. It's these we fight 
>about!

I can understand the confusion. But I don't see this as a serious point.
Understand from my point of view. I am trying to learn Klingon as a newbe
and  more expericenced people can't agree on whether or not verbs are
transitive. Something that in my native language I didn't realize existed
until a little while ago.

Remember when you said:
>Literally, it's "Death is not able to separate something which virtue causes 
>to join."  I'm not sure if {muv} is transitive or not.  For a substitute, you 
>might try

When I get to something the experts find difficult to agree on I wonder if
we are not adding our own rules unnecessarly.

In your last example:
>What does the sentence {ghor taj} mean? Does it mean that the knife causes 
>something to be made into pieces, or does it mean that the knife itself 
>becomes several pieces? Well, now we know. In TKD, Okrand uses the sentence 
>{pIpyuS pach DaSop DaneHchugh pIpyuS puS DaghornIS}. "If you want to eat a 
>pipius claw, you'll have to break a few pipiuses." "You break them." Not 
>"You break" (as in, you fall into pieces). THAT's how it works.

I'm curious about "THAT's how it works." Is that how it works or is that how
he used it. Do we know for sure. Personally I have a hard enough time with
grammar and wouldn't make it more complicated. If needed a verb can be
defined by context. Isn't there any examples of transitive verbs being used
intransitivtly like "I go" no object. I don't know if this is exactly the
example I'm looking for but it the only one I can think of.

Kalos/qeyloS
la' Hegh tel yo'

yIn oH' De'wI' rop'e' net qelnIS.
'ach Human ghob Duj je Dellaw' ngoDvam.
Qaw'taH neH yIn wIchenmoHta'bogh.
nurur yIn wIchenmoHta'bogh.
"Stephen Hawking" tej tera' DIS wa' Hut Hut loS

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