tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 03 07:15:05 1996
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Re: RE: KLBC: TKD page 38
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: RE: KLBC: TKD page 38
- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:13:44 -0500 ()
- Priority: NORMAL
On Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:52:18 -0800 David Trimboli
<[email protected]> wrote:
> November 30, 1996 11:09 AM, jatlh Andrew 'Ska' Netherton:
...
> > HIQoymoH Ha'DIbaH! (let me hear the animal)
> >
> > Comments from the Grammarians? jIqImrup....
>
> This is not correct. {HIQoymoH} means "cause me to hear." The object is
> "me." TKD adds "(something)" to the translation, but this is not an
> invitation to add a second object. If I say {jIQoy}, it means "I hear," but
> what exactly I hear is not specified. But I do hear something! This is what
> is going on with the translation of {HIQoymoH}.
While I largely agree and respectfully wish to not cause SuStel
more stress than I likely already have, I need to extend this by
use of the really strange canon Okrand just offered with the
Skybox card S20 (HolQeD v5n2p14). If we accept {Qoy} as a
transitive verb (which we should, since Okrand uses it as such
in TKW page 31), then you could say "Let me hear the animal,"
though he got the syntax utterly and completely wrong.
Of course if that is what he really wants to say, I'd say,
{Ha'DIbaH vIQoy 'e' yIchaw',} but for the sake of this
grammatical point, we can shift the meaning a bit and get:
jIHvaD Ha'DIbaH yIQoymoH.
Yes, it looks weird, but according to S20, when a transitive
verb gets {-moH} added, the direct object of the root verb is
the direct object of the verb with {-moH}, while the direct
object of causation becomes the indirect object of the verb with
{-moH}. The subject of causation becomes the subject of the verb
with {-moH}.
This confuses many of us because when {-moH} is added to an
intransitive verb, the direct object of causation becomes the
direct object of the verb with {-moH}. We are accustomed to that
slot being filled with that object, but when the verb is
transitive, that object gets bumped out to indirect object
status in order to make room for the direct object of the root
verb.
I hope my point is not lost in the jargon.
> --
> SuStel
> Beginners' Grammarian
> Stardate 96916.9
charghwI'