tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Dec 01 20:20:14 1996

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RE: KLBC on naming convention

December 01, 1996 7:14 PM, jatlh qayrIS:

> >What documented exception?
> 
>         Well, perhaps 'exception' is a little strong.  Page 38-39 of TKD
> says "Those prefixes which normally indicate first- or second-person subject
> and third-person singular object (vI-, Da-, wI- bo-) are used to indicate
> first- or second-person object."

Ah.  That's not an exception, that's exactly how {-lu'} works!

>         So I'm translating {vIponglu'} as "I am called," choosing the
> passive voice intentionally..

What you're doing is fiddling with the English translation, hoping it changes 
the meaning.  Remember that however you translate it, it still says the same 
thing in Klingon.  In this case, {-lu'} may often be *translated* into 
English's passive voice, but that's not its definition.  {-lu'} always refers 
to an action with an indefinite subject.

Many people go through this problem.  I found a long time ago that if I always 
translate {-lu'} verbs as "one does blah blah," I never run into the problem 
of trying to emulate English passive voice.  For example, Okrand translates 
{batlh Daqawlu'taH} as "You will be remembered with honor," but when *I* 
translate it, I don't use the passive voice: "Someone will remember you with 
honor."  It may sound funny in English, but you won't go wrong with that.

> The {vI-} prefix points the name (used as an
> object, since I'm winging it here) at "me". {pong}, as has been pointed out
> in the FAQ, is a two-object verb.  The name is one object, and the thing
> named is the other.

The FAQ is not canon, and it doesn't give an exact answer.  We do have the 
canon SkyBox card which shows how this is done.  Given the choice between 
canon and non-canon, guess which one I'd choose?
 
>         I'd translate {jIHvaD *qayrIS* ponglu'} as something much like "The
> name 'Kyris' is given to me', which basically conveys the meaning I was
> looking for.  I arrived at that construction, too, after reading the FAQ's
> discussion on names.  When I saw {-lu'} given to express passive voice, I
> came up with my other idea.

Again, {-lu'} may be used to express English's passive voice, but that's NOT 
what it is.

{jIHvaD *qayrIS* ponglu'} would most accurately be translated as "One names 
'Kyris'; this naming applies to me."

-- 
SuStel
Beginners' Grammarian
Stardate 96920.1

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